PL Omaha Hi-lo

Do we have any members who are skilled and knowledgable at this game. I really like it and wouldn't mind giving it a go but would love some help with the strategy. What is the best book to start with?

I also want to know if I post hands in HA if there is anyone who would be willing to look at them - or would they just sit there lol...

This book I found very informative Daks. It's called How to win at Omaha High - Low By Mike Cappelletti. he talks about things like reading the board for hi's and lows and dangerous draws, single and double promo raises, duplication, driving, pushing, pulling and such

Thanks - I will check out Amazon.

I might suggest The Winner's Guide to Omaha Poker by Ken Warren. Pretty good stuff. Helped me get to my current level of incompetence.

I'm consider buying Farha On Omaha: Expert Strategy for Beating Cash Games and Tournaments by Sam Farha and Storms Reback. Sammy is pretty widely recognized to be one of the best Omaha players in the world by other pros, so it might be worth the price, especially used.we

On a personal note, this game makes me nuts. Just about the time I think I'm starting to get a bit of a handle on it, it shows me the error of my ways. But I keep plugging away. Oddly enough, it frequently is one of sections in HORSE tournaments where I do pretty well. Maddening.

Anywho, I, too, would like to learn more practical information about it.

Wish I had any personal experience, but I don't. BUT... Someone posted a Q the other day about Omaha books here, and I said something like I've checking them out on Amazon, and mentioned the Hwang book. One person responded afterwards, saying it was a good book. Anyway, start here. Oops, editted to add, the link didn't work. In Anazon, I did a search on poker Omaha. But here's Hwang...

Amazon.com: Pot-Limit Omaha Poker: Jeff Hwang: Books


You'll see the Ciaffone (sp/) book, and Jeff Hwang actually reviews it positively and says it was a starting off point for his own (more recent) book.
Amazon.com: Omaha Poker: Bob Ciaffone: Books

Look at the table of contents and excepts and read the reviews. Hwangs ranks very highly, and cheap. If it's the only book you need, go to buy.com. If your order is $25+, get it at Amazon.

I think I heard this on the barry greenstein ace on the river audio book, but he was talking about where the best games of each genre reside (hold em, stud, omaha). He was saying this from a standpoint of if you want to test your self or better yourself this is where you want to go.

I can't remember the exact locations of where he said the best hold em and stud players reside, none of the locations did he mention more than once, but I remember everything he said I was agreeing with/thinking that it made sense. He said go to Europe for the best omaha games/competition. Now obviously you don't want to purposely play the best, you want to play fish if you have a choice, but from an experience stand point it damn sure helps playing the best.

I agree with Greenstein on this one that the best omaha players reside in Europe. What separates the European omaha players to the American players, is postflop play, I think the European omaha players postflop play is much better generally. What I think the Americans are best at in omaha is calculating outs to win on the flop, playing the percentage game, and understanding what hands are good preflop and playing for only the nuts. Theres only one problem with this tho, when you play 6 max and damn near seemingly every hand is raised if you play for only the nuts you'll get bluffed off of winning hands alot. European players are definitely good at floating and bluffing every scare card in almost all situations, a risk alot of American players don't really take as often that works pretty often when you push it.
at the end of the day, in omaha, I think postflop play is more important than math in omaha just barely. Europlayers don't focus on the math as much, but don't get it twisted some of them definitely do and the ones that do that bluff alot are VERY hard to deal with whether its hi/lo or hi.

so all that math and those books will help, but I say you play with some american players to get your math right, and play with some euro players to get your postflop play right. Europlayers will also help you get your preflop game better too in omaha. US players don't reraise often enough WITHOUT ACES. Its too many situations where people are raising every single hand, and people get comfortable calling when you should be widening your reraise range BIG TIME. For the most part, throughout my experiences in PLO and PLO hi/lo the best players are the ones that are selectively super aggressive, I know that sounds stupid, but yeah, selectively super aggressive. There very near hypermaniac aggressive, but they know when to slow down, but they have a real good feel when they can get way with leaning on you non stop once they know how you play.

I havent really looked into too many omaha books, I got my omaha start from super system 2 and that gave me general idea math wise and you definitely need to understand the math. But Its some postflop concepts that I just assume isn't really taught in books, I would say if you could find a book that goes in depth about postflop play, bluffing, betting, raising preflop, reraising preflop, and raising reraises preflop (without aces, probably sounds crazy but definitely happens when stacks are deep), redraws, etc. I don't think any book is going to tell you how to raise, have someone raise you, than you reraises that person again pot max without aces in deep stacks. I'd be surprised if a book goes in depth into postflop play on omaha outside of the math side. Good luck in your book search, once you get past the math aspect, nothing will be better than experience though.

Hoya, I only know of one very advanced book on Omaha strategy. The reviews say that it doesn't even bother much with starting hands, a lot of basic knowledge is assumed. Some reviewers say to read Hwang or Ciaffone first, or not only will a lot will go over your head, but his strategies might bleed an inexperienced player. Rolf Slotboom, yes he's European (Dutch). Mind you, there's no table of contents to look at, but the description and reviews say nothing about hi/lo, so I'd assume this is strictly PLO.

Amazon.com: Secrets of Professional Pot-Limit Omaha: Rolf Slotboom: Books (reviews)

http://www.buy.com/prod/secrets-of-p...202782373.html (slightly better price)

I am defnitely not interested in PLO lol.

I am quite confident in my PLO8 game. I have never read a book on the game because I never found a good one (there is one at the university library but it seems too mathematical).

I think it is not very hard to learn the game better than the other players as most of them have very little clue what they are doing.

Thanks for the replies on this subject. I also am very fond of omaha8. I like all the variations, Razz being my least favorite. Anyways, I always play small limit Limit O8 6 handed, but I know that Im just playin an average game right now and maybe taking a look into some literature will improve things. Its hard to read about all the math sometimes, but its very very critical. Thanks again.

Dive, thanks for the heads up on that book, I'm gonna see what I can do to get my hands on it, definitely can't hurt to check it out. Of course they show a hand on the cover that makes it look like its easy to win lol, because if you had the hand on the cover on the flop you'd be getting your chips all in on the flop or at some point during the hand in damn near every situation.

I read a couple of articles by the dude ciaffone when I had a subscription to card player about 2 years ago, he was aight, nothing really new what I read. I don't think I really need the beginner stuff, and I'm really hoping that theres even stuff that I can use in the book you mentioned and maybe the farha book. I already know somethings I need to do more often, some which I have already focused on doing, there is something I really hope one of those books addresses and thats pretty much, for lack of better words, people that play the nuts backwards/when is the best time to play the nuts backwards, which I pretty much already know, I just want to consider the best defense options for those that play the nuts backwards. Well we'll see i'll look into them when I get a chance and if you read one Dive, or anyone else definitely post some tidbits if you can



why not, thats where the easy money is gonna be at cash game wise, only real reason I say you need to know PLO8 is for tournament purpose, more importantly horse if you plan on playing that. I realized that when I started playing both PLO8 and PLO, cus if you ain't scooping, you ain't really going to make too much money.

PLO8 ?

Not a game that I have a massive amount of experience playing, even though I did log a nice few thousand hands in 2006. The one thing that struck me even from watching some people that played it for a living (Grum) is that the swings can be pretty savage. The thing is with this game is that you have to be putting in large portions of your stack without lock hands, ie playing big pots with combo draws. Combo draws can miss over and over. If you are prepared for the variance that comes with this game by all means go for it, you also need to be able to calculate your pot odds and equity in a pot quickly, and doing this for plo8 is tricker than doing it with holdem. Remember occasionally you will get quartered (or be quartering people) and this needs to be included in your math.

By all means get a book and have a look though.

Yeah, you definitely got to have some serious discipline in terms of coping with the variance, and definitely can't be results oriented. Definitely keep an omaha odds calculator handy to help you with percentages. I'd assume that the variance is worse in plo8 than it is in plo. Either way I can tell you from personal experience, the variance can get so bad at times it'll make you question if playing omaha for you is a good idea in general, so be prepared for that....As long as you don't condition yourself to whatever happens your first couple of outings/weeks you will be alright. Whatever happens in your early days of omaha, DO NOT CONDITION yourself to the results, because if you do it will be your demise. You shouldn't condition yourself in any form of poker to whatever happens in your early stages, but with a game with as much variance as omaha its even more vital here. As long as you don't do that you've won half the battle as far as coping with variance. Expect swings and remember that every day is a new day, every session is a new session.

Also, dont' be afraid to set quotas for your self and leave tables early when you get that stack up. Definitely leave when your image/reign on the table is starting to dry out and you are starting to become card dead, because variance can easily strike a session when your up and set you right back down to square one. If your confident and you feel the game is still good stay and play, but if you've already tripled/quadrupled your buy in and the games getting tighter/live ones or juicy players have left the table don't be afraid to leave with that profit and restart on another table, because all it takes is a set over set or to get out drawn once in a big pot to take a hit, and if it means that much to your bankroll (or if you have a daily quota) it may be in your best interest at that point to leave. I think leaving at the right time in poker game is probably the most important in omaha just off the variance factor alone

no idea about any books daks, but I play PLO hi lo from time to time, so have some knowledge about it. When I do play I tend to play pretty tight, only premium hands in EP, then hands with lots of combos in any position, and Im always aware of what could be beating me each street, and whether it's worth going to the river or not, I do alright at it, make a profit when i do play.


post a hand or two for analysis, see what happens?

Been my (brief) experience with the game too.

The other thing that drove me slightly insane was winning one half of the pot, getting beat in the other, then ending up with less money than I started with after rake. Like TB says though, lock hands don't come along often enough that you can just wait for them, so stuff like that happens a lot.

I'd be very happy to talk about hands though if you want to post some, and I think there's a number of others who will too. I put one up a little while back that generated some interesting discussion.

I gave it a go last night for a while. I killed the $10 table and sucked at the $25 lol. There was a huge difference in the play on the 2 tables. And almost every time I had A2 somebody else had it too. I had A222 one hand and somebody still managed to get the other 2 lol.

I love the game but will probably just dabble in it - because I don't think I could handle the huge swings.

I've been playing PLO for a little bit. A really good book is the Hwang one. Besides theory it gives hands and situations on different plays and why. It has a pretty good section on PLO/8. But IMHO PLO is where it is at. He has a quote on the back of the book that sums it up for me, "Omaha offers more action and bigger pots than HE".

Yes, most defintely - and that's why I didn't direct it at Dakota. Just thought the website was excellent. The even says at the end of his first paragraph in the hand analysis section... "Please note that the game here is pot-limit Omaha, high only. For PLO/8 (hi-lo, eight or better) totally different comments would apply." http://www.rolfslotboom.com/display....cle_plo1&t=plo

A killing at the lower table would still put you ahead, so you did great! Far as the swings, and reason you wouldn't be interested in the fixed limit game? I love them both too, but FL keeps more people honest.

Anyway, Hwang's is the only book I found that even devoted a whole chapter (20 pgs plus quizzes?) on PLO8. Every other serious book on Omaha was either 1) strictly H/L but fixed limit or 2) PLO (hi only).

There's one new book, but no reviews, and can't search inside the book. Amazon.com: Omaha High-Low Poker: How to Win at the Lower Limits: Shane Smith, Don Vines: Books

good looks on those links dive, I book marked slotboom, breezed through one article, I'll continue to check it out, he's got a good amount of material on there

Gonna try FL next for a comparison!

Let me remind you that at the lowest level there is very little skill needed. You just need to play quite tight, trying to hit a low and freeroll for the high or try to sandwhich a player in the middle with the other side of the pot tied up.

Also having a better high once your low runs into the same low is advantageous.

I love the omaha game,unfortuantly I dont know o many books on it.
But I seem to do quite well playing sng's and mtt's of hi/lo plo.
I would be more than happy to play around with play chips and give you some of pointers to try and help you.
Omaha especially hi/lo is a pretty complex game with endless possibillties,and requires agreat amount of patience to play.
It is one of my favorite,but slow.
Anyway feel free to shoot me some pm's with any questions you might have,and if you wanna play a few rounds on play chips then let me know.