Past Posting in 6-max

I just ran into the idea of posting your BB as soon as the dealer button passes you (when you first enter a game). They call that Past Posting. Does it make any sense to do that in 6-max? It seems like it would be better in FR.

Most people recommend waiting for your big blind to post, but that puts you in poor position. Past Posting gets you into late position.

You end up paying to see a hand that's likely to be folded. Many regs will raise on the BTN and in the blinds with a very wide range against an early post - it's pretty much dead money in the pot. It also makes you look like a fish. And you're going to end up paying the blinds in a couple of hands anyhow, making for an expensive orbit.

You end up paying the blind twice on the same orbit.

Thats never going to be a good idea.

Fish do it because they are impatient.

The only way around paying the blind twice in the same orbit is to sit out as the blind reaches you and past post again.

Its a lot of effort for not much gain.

In shorthanded games it definitely isnt worth posting in LP. Full ring there's very little difference either way.

Even in FR, this is a bad strategy.

I know of only 1 reg who posts behind at FR. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know most people say it is bad, but I've seen some arguments that make me wonder. We all know that playing in position is a big advantage, the question is is it worth one big blind to buy this position for an extra orbit?

What are the chances you'll be dealt a playable hand and that nobody in front or behind you will raise? This is essentially limping without seeing your hole cards.

Also, you won't have position if the btn likes to raise when someone posts early (I love doing this, it's dead money so much of the time - and the fish who do this sometimes call my raise oop and fold to my cbet, even better). I play 6max, maybe this isn't as common in FR, but I see a lot of regs doing the same thing as me from the btn and the blinds.

Finally, the earliest you can post is CO, so you only have a positional advantage for the first hand if the BTN folds, and only for the second hand if both CO and BTN fold, and then all of a sudden you're MP. Positional advantage will evaporate in a hurry.

I do see some people post early and then raise when they have the option - if it's a thinking player, I'm putting them on a pretty wide range. This might sort of/kind of work if you did it close to 100% of the time, since it keeps the BTN and blinds guessing - but I still think it's a waste of money.

Someone please help me with the math -- I can't quite get my mind around it . . . but, in my database I see that I make 72 bbs/100 between the CO and EP at 6-max, so is that worth 1 BB to get into late position if I can continue with that winrate? I currently lose 30 bbs in the big blind, so I need to improve on that somehow (shortstacking? -- see my other thread). I'm not sure, but it seems like the problem is something like this: I get to see 3 hands per extra BB post in the cutoff. I make 72 bbs per 100 hands total in these positions. 100/3 = 33.33 extra BB posts every 100 hands, but I'm making 72 bbs, so as long as I'm doing better than 33.33, it's profitable. Does that math make sense?

You will always lose money from the blinds.

The goal should be to lose less rather than to make money from these positions.

As for past posting.

The only way you can do it is to either sit out when the blinds approach (If I saw someone do this 3 or 4 times in a row I would report them.. Its basically cheating when you do it a few times in a row) or to leave the table as the blinds approach.

On the surface you might think that the hit and run aproach would favor SS play. (there s a good thread on this.. you might want to read it )

However the reality is that to make SS play work, you need 20+ tables on the go.

Table selection is going to become horrendous if you have to switch tables every 4 hands!!!

What I've noticed (from that other thread ) is that the SSers make their most money in the blinds; my idea is kind of a hybrid -- SS in the blinds and full stack everywhere else. I think I'm getting my other new thread mixed up with this one, but they're related, all stemming from that epic SS thread.

My plan would only involve Past Posting when I first sat down, to get those few extra late position hands. After that, I'd stay at the table for awhile (maybe 25 to 50 hands depending on circumstances). If I played at least 15 tables at once, played 3 or 4 sessions a day, I think it would have a positive effect on overall hourly rate -- note huge, but still, time is money.

Of course the other advantage of posting early is getting involved in a favorable game more quickly, which also should help hourly rate. Currently I always wait for the Big Blind before posting, but I end up sitting out a long time before I get to play. As long as I'm playing in a game I can beat handily, I think I might be better to get involved quickly and not waste all that time. Since I'm multi-tabling and know I have a good winrate at those stakes, it's not really that important or possible to sit and watch for a few hands to get a feel for my opponents. Most of them are in my database anyway, so the HUD will take care of that.

I think it would have some effect (some is in italics).

By sitting at the table for 50 hands (5 orbits or 8 at 6 max), you gain by virtue of posting the blinds in late position. You lose by posting the blind twice in the same orbit. You then play the next 5-8 orbits as normal.

Would it effect your winrate?.... yes probably.

Would it be a noticeable effect? ..... erm, I don't know but I think we are talking very small fractions of a BB.

A quick calculation in my head tells me I might make an extra 60 or so big blinds a day. At my current stakes, that's about an extra $100 a month. I guess I should try it out and see what happens. It's no doubt much harder to make this work at higher stakes.

Full Ring at a full table I'll post in the CO if I notice. You get 6 hands for 1 BB which is same price as 9 hands for 1.5 BBs. You don't get to play your button which is the most profitable spot but you also avoid the blinds which even after paying the actual blinds should be pretty much the worst spots on the table. Also if you are a winning player the value of playing hands instead of just sitting and waiting is there.

If all positions were created equal, then posting in the CO makes mathematical sense for Full Ring but not 6-max:

FR: 17 hands (9 per lap plus 6 extra) for 2.5 bbs = 0.147 bbs per hand <<<Less Expensive
FR: 9 hands (posting in the BB) for 1.5 bbs = 0.167 bbs per hand

6-max: 9 hands (6 per lap plus 3 extra) for 2.5 bbs = 0.278 bbs per hand <<<More Expensive
6-max: 6 hands (posting in the BB) for 1.5 bbs = 0.25 bbs per hand


But all positions are not created equal, so I think you'll make up the difference in 6-max, too.