over valuing QQ?

Playin NL5 full ring on PokerStars. Only played like 23hands on this table...
Im in seat 1, villain in seat 4. Forgot his stats...
But the villain a few hands back limped UTG+1 with AA.
He raises this time EP to 5xBB. I've got QQ in the BB.
Thought i'd raise it since everyone folded n were HU.
He re-raises me to $2.75....wow...has he got AK? So i decided to 4bet him. But he had AA again!!! 10 hands later and he has AA again. Dam....
Did I over value QQ?

Looks like your playing at a really low stake, so no probably not, 5x the blind usually is usually a sign he doesn't want action. if your getting decent odds id make the call here.. i doubt im the best micro cash game player going around though, i dont really think im gonna fold QQ preflop in a micro ever

He mixed up his play well...
Usally a 5xBB raise from EP at micro doesnt want action and wants to take the pot pre-flop with hands like AQs+/AJo+/99-JJ?
Guess I was just unlucky with my big PP running into another big PP. I realy thought i was ahead since he just had AA a few hands ago lol.

i wont say he played it well by betting 5x, but i guess he got lucky that you had a hand you couldn't fold... seems like a bit of a cooler you cant do too much about. id be happy to be all in preflop vs a weirdo like him

There are opponents that you fold QQ to, and there are opponents that you pay off.

In micro stakes, you probably should be paying all of them off pre-flop.

Be aware that the players that you can fold QQ to pre-flop aren't necessarily tight players but strong players. The nit that sits there folding hands for an hour and then re-raises me all in I still might call if I've seen him over value the premiums that he does play. The players I fold QQ to are the ones who know what hand I'm representing and are smart enough to get away from it, but shove anyway. Then I've got a decision to make.

U do get fools at micro lol.
The dude to my right is min raising with crap like K8s, J9s etc. Jus beat him on a hand where he min raised with K8 n I called on BTN w/ A4s.
Caught a A blah blah blah. Won a ok pot.
Now the dude to my right min raises again. Now i have QQ (ho-ho-ho this hand can be evil but f**k it im gonna play it against these noobs) so I re-raise his weak raise x3. The dude on the BTN who has $2 for NL5 goes all-in. I kinda guess he's playin SSS and has AK.
The min raiser call the all-in and im left here having to call $1.70 into a $4+ pot and im lookin at QQ. F**K it im callin, im either WA/WB.
Minraiser: Ac3c
Me: QQ
SSS: AsKc

No A or K came out and im happy that I 3bet this pot.
QQ can b a hard hand to play at times, but by 3betting im gonna try take the lead most of the time.

For me on a post flop with no Q hitting Im going too bet min too river because I would rather win a small pot than lose a big one

Beechleaf, if you're up against AA/KK or anyone who has flopped better than one pair, don't you think they're raising you?

And by betting the minimum, you're pricing in every draw. The fewer cards you see, the more likely you are to win.

You're only down against AA or KK preflop, so you gotta call there.

I would have just called the preflop bet though and see what the flop brings. Then play on from there. But reraising him is not bad either. Depends on your preference really.

I think with it was necessary to do call, instead of to rearrange and look flop. The villain played competently, and you have only helped it..... QQ it is far not the strongest hands unfortunately

Dude let me tell you one simple strategy in playing QQ successfully...
If no one has raised before u, then raise 4xBB...
If anyone calls it, then watch the flop and decide ur action..
If some raises more than 4xBB before you, or re-raises ur bet, then continue only with AA,KK or AK and go allin...Fold with remaining all hands...

Are you saying that AK is a better hand preflop than QQ?

Wat i am saying is AK and QQ fall in the same category in my book...
U need to play both of them carefully...
And if u ask me about with which hand will i prefer going allin preflop if i have to, i would prefer AK than QQ...
This is during situations when there has been a reraise or more than one raise in front of you..
If there has been no raises in front of u, then AK and QQ have same value..
But if there has been few raises or reraises, AK will give u better chance to win than QQ...
But with AA or KK u can play, like u have played now with QQ...

every hand is hard to play after the flop. Especially if you have more than one additional player in the pot. You have to mix it up. I would say that if everyone folds to you then 4 times the blind is good. However, if another person or two have just called, then you need to raise it the number if blinds for each person in the pot. (i.e. 2 callers, SB, BB and yourself. This would be 5 ties the blind). If someone has raised, ou should reraise then 3 times their raise.

why 4x, i dont get it, my raise sizings are generally min 2.5x or 3x max....

i prefer QQ over AK, even in multiway, it still rates to be best...

In pre-flop all in situations, QQ is the better hand.
AA/KK have it dominated, and AK is a coinflip. Everything else is dominated.

AK is either dominated by AA/KK, or in a coin flip (it does dominate AQ/AJ, if you can get them to go all in pre-flop against you, but so does QQ).

AK is a great hand because it dominates so many premium hands (hands that everyone plays, so the chances of running into them are high). AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT. Because of this it plays best in a raised pot (it is a valuable hand, and you do want a good amount of money in the middle + being the pre-flop aggressor is always good), you want to raise an amount that all of the hands you dominate will call, this way you're way ahead of most of your opponent's range. By going all in pre-flop, their range becomes more defined as the hands that have you dominated. For instance KQ isn't going all in pre-flop against you, but AA/KK are. Basically when you get it all in pre-flop, you're usually hoping for a coinflip when you have AK.
Pre-flop I'll actually fold AK when confronted with an all in bet because it does so bad against the possible hands, the only way I call an all in is if there is enough money already in the pot and I don't think I'm up against AA/KK, then I'll call and take the coin flip. I might be the one to make an all in bet, but only if there's a lot of money in the pot and I don't think I'm up against AA/KK, here I'm relying on my fold equitty and accepting that when I do get called it's going to be a coinflip.

QQ on the other hand I very rarely fold pre-flop, if I don't put my opponent on aces or kings, I'm willing to go all in because I dominate so many hands that will call me.

On the flop I also preffer QQ. AK will often miss and you've got to rely on your c-bet taking down the pot (sometimes A high is ahead, but it can be difficult to know when), QQ on the other hand is fairly straightforward, if no A or K hits, you play it the same way as you would if you had pocket aces. If an A or K hits, usually you just play it as a WA/WB situation, an added advantage of this is that you can induce bets on the turn from weaker hands.

+1

At a Micro table I don't see myself folding QQ. One of the best players I ever played against (we went for about 12 hours at the bike in LA, I'd take from the table, lose a monster to him, rinse and repeat lol, ended up breaking even that session after he left) was bragging to me that he folded QQ pre-flop against AA.

I read in one of Phil Gordon's books a few years ago that a four-bet means AA. Even if it doesn't, you're allowed to four-bet with hands like KK (I would) and AK (Probably don't wanna get too carried away though).

I don't see myself folding your hand at a micro table, but multiply the stakes enough you'd have a serious decision. QQ is a dangerous hand. If you don't hit a set, all you have is two queens. =P

I would have played your hand the same way though, chock it up to bad luck and don't let it get to you. =P

The last three days, I've run into KK while holding QQ everyday. Busted all three times.

Couldn't bring myself to fold.

Against what most fish at this level stack off with, yes. Not only does AK have more equity against a weak-passive fish's stacking range, but AK also makes our opponent having A's or K's less likely.

81.741% { KK+ }
18.259% { QQ }

80.364% { KK+ }
19.636% { AKs, AKo }

This thread is really dumb, and there's a boatload of terrible advice floating around in it, per usual.

+1.

Most people seem to assume (especially people who have not played these limits) that players at this level are all maniacs that stack off pre-flop with A6o when generally they're too scared to stack off with anything except AA (even then....). Generally fish are passive calling stations and that's what makes them the fish.

I play 6-max so QQ is an auto stack against most players as they're getting it in with JJ and AQ enough. Even without the AQ we're good with dead money but again it's 6-max.

Why did you bump a thread that's over a year old to say this? Jeez.

Aww man I missed that, now I'm angry.

It's cool buddy. This thread is done though.