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  Poker - Optimal cbetting % ?
 
  #1  
19-08-2008, 1:28 PM
BelgoSuisse
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Location: Paris, France
Plays at: FTP, PS
Likes: NL Holdem
Posts: 1,420
Optimal cbetting % ?

I've moved to 6max (25NL or 50NL) quite recently (12000 hands) and it's been a bit swingy. Analysing my play, I realised i got little respect on my cbets and ended having tough decisions there. I was probably cbetting too much (75% cbets, playing 21/18/4)

So I rewatched cottonseed's cbetting tutorial on stox and i've tried to refocus my game. Over the next 1000 hands, i'm down to 60% cbets even though i was a bit tighter (19/15/2). Seems to work fine (20 BB/100) although the sample size is obviously tiny.

What do you think about those numbers?
 

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  #2  
19-08-2008, 5:29 PM
ChuckTs
whitebread
 
Location: lopping off my C-game
Posts: 11,570
72.12356723651%

There's no such thing as an ideal % here because it should be a function of how likely your opponent is to fold or call a flop bet (whether you have a weak hand or a strong one respectively).

I think looking at it more along the lines of individual hands and whether or not that cbet is more profitable than another line is 'ideal'. If your opponent folds to cbet more than %70 of the time, you should cbet like %100 of the time. If his fcb is only %40, then you should choose your spots more carefully.

If you want a general guideline (and have HEM), go to the articles in the menu. Cbet % is somewhere in one of those, and it compares the Cbet %s of different players and shows the average winrate for differing %s.
  #3  
19-08-2008, 5:37 PM
combuboom
it's a brand new era
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
72.12356723659%
fyp
  #4  
19-08-2008, 5:50 PM
BelgoSuisse
CardsChat Irregular
 
Location: Paris, France
Plays at: FTP, PS
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Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
There's no such thing as an ideal % here because it should be a function of how likely your opponent is to fold or call a flop bet (whether you have a weak hand or a strong one respectively)
I know that.

Yet, when i look at my stats, i played about 6000 hands at 50NL 6max and 6000 hands at 25NL 6max. And I have virtually the same percentages for vpip, pfr and cbet at both limits, so i guess it really says a lot about the style i play, regardless of individual hands and opponents.

Reviewing individual hands, i realized i was probably cbetting on flops where this was -EV and i'm trying to correct that. This will decrease my cbet% for sure. Just wondering if 75% is generally considered too much and 60% better. I remember zachvac said he cbets less than 50% which i find insanely low.

Unfortunately don't have HEM. Using PT3 for the moment.
  #5  
19-08-2008, 6:13 PM
ChuckTs
whitebread
 
Location: lopping off my C-game
Posts: 11,570
Quote:
The following shows average bb/100 for players using a datamined database of NL 6 Max from NL100 to NL1000 over the last 6 months – I took results from the 1790 players with at least 5K hands in the database. For each stat I have grouped results into 5 equal ranges and then taken the median bb/100. Often it is more meaningful to look at combinations of stats but this should give you a general guide.

...

Flop Cbet% ... Median bb/100
< 61.5 ... -0.23
61.5 to 69.7 ... 2.33
69.7 to 75.1 ... 3.32
75.1 to 80.4 ... 3.17
80.4+ ... 2.38
From the article
  #6  
19-08-2008, 7:32 PM
BelgoSuisse
CardsChat Irregular
 
Location: Paris, France
Plays at: FTP, PS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
From the article
Thanks. Which article?
  #7  
19-08-2008, 7:39 PM
ChuckTs
whitebread
 
Location: lopping off my C-game
Posts: 11,570
First one, called Determining typical bb/100 ranges based on Stat Ranges.
  #8  
19-08-2008, 8:30 PM
BelgoSuisse
CardsChat Irregular
 
Location: Paris, France
Plays at: FTP, PS
Likes: NL Holdem
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
First one, called Determining typical bb/100 ranges based on Stat Ranges.
First one where? Is that supposed to be a link?
  #9  
19-08-2008, 8:41 PM
ChuckTs
whitebread
 
Location: lopping off my C-game
Posts: 11,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse
First one where? Is that supposed to be a link?
From HEM. They're the articles menu and relate to certain filters that allow you to figure out if your stats are 'good' or not. They're built into the program, ie available only to those who purchased it.
  #10  
19-08-2008, 8:54 PM
BelgoSuisse
CardsChat Irregular
 
Location: Paris, France
Plays at: FTP, PS
Likes: NL Holdem
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
From HEM. They're the articles menu and relate to certain filters that allow you to figure out if your stats are 'good' or not. They're built into the program, ie available only to those who purchased it.
i'll probably buy it one of these days. it does sound much better than PT.
 



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