Online Timing "tells"

This is a discussion on Online Timing "tells" within the online poker forums, in the Strategy Forum section; ok so basically heres a few things ive picked up in my time playing online poker, against mostly weaker players.. and these are not always ...
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  #1
2nd November 2009, 9:40 AM
WiZZiM
 
Plays at: Ftp, Pkr, Ps
Game: 8 Game
Online Timing "tells"

ok so basically heres a few things ive picked up in my time playing online poker, against mostly weaker players.. and these are not always going to be accurate, but with some players ive picked up on some of these timing tells and used it to my advantage...


keep an eye out for how long a particular player makes his decisions, if he is usually making his decisions quickly and suddenly asks for time, you have to think why?

a few ones ive picked up on, feel free to add to these....

The delayed check, a long pause and a check usually indicates a weaker hand and you should be comfortable betting.

The delayed bet, usually one of significant strength, the players trying to think of a bet size that will be called, or trying to think of how to go about playing the hand.

the quick check, can either be strength or weakness depending on the player, but in my experience the quick check is someone who is wanting to check raise. or will at least call.

another one is the instabet, this is a sign to me that the player decided to bet no matter what the flop was, say a late position player riased to 3x the blind you call with ace jack. the flop comes k 2 3, you check and your opponant instantly bets, this is a sign to me that he hasnt really thought about the action or he has decided before the flop came what he is going to do, so i raise and he folds instantly.

the quick call after a raise or a reraise- this tells me that they have a good, but not great hand, because if he had a great hand he would think about raising or just calling..

the auto checkfold button-brilliant tell, ive used this many times where ive checked, fearing the flop hit my opponant only to have him insta check, obv with the checkfold button on, and then i bet out any turn card knowing he is weak. you can also use this to your advantage against good players, put the "check" button on when you have a superstrong hand, once the good player checks it will look like youve hit the check fold, when he bets the turn raise him...


basically when someone deviates from his normal action time something is generally up so work out what it means and use it against him, by laying down hands you generally wouldnt or by raising him when you think he may be weak.


the point of showing a few of these tells is that you should look at your own timing and think if you can improove, i like to take a little more time than most players, even though i genearllly know what im going to do before it happens. waiting a little longer will give you time later on to make a big decision and not give an opponant who is watching your timing tells anymore information about your holdings.
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  #2
2nd November 2009, 11:17 AM
cardplayer52
 
Plays at: full tilt
Game: holdem
the insta bet makes no sense. maybe he though while you were thinking about your hand. the one i like is the delayed 3bet on the river. always the nutz never fail.
  #3
2nd November 2009, 12:28 PM
Pothole
 
Plays at: Absolute Poker FT Titan
Game: RAZZ
So how do you deal with a player who makes every decision at the same time, whether it's check raise or fold?
  #4
2nd November 2009, 2:22 PM
spiderman637
 
Plays at: carbon
Game: HOLDEM
I disagree mate, mainly because you have forgotten completly the concept of bluffing...
Many players alter call times to bluff and trap others...
Any ways, your post is refreshingly new and i enjoyed reading it...
  #5
2nd November 2009, 2:29 PM
thepokerkid123
 
Game: NL Holdem
re: Online Timing "tells" poker

I like the delayed check tell, I use it live all the time. If someone delays a check (particularly if they act as if they want to bet while they're doing so), I'll almost always bet and get a fold. Normally you don't want them to stay in the hand because if they're trying so hard to buy a free card they're on a draw.


What I will add to spiderman637's comment about players altering their times, this is true, you should never try to get a tell on a good player who is aware of that tell. You have to watch them for a while to make sure that it's consistent and reliable, because usually it's misdirection.
  #6
2nd November 2009, 2:30 PM
jacksprat
 
Plays at: PokerStars
Game: NL holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiZZiM
The delayed bet, usually one of significant strength, the players trying to think of a bet size that will be called, or trying to think of how to go about playing the hand.

the auto checkfold button-brilliant tell, ive used this many times where ive checked, fearing the flop hit my opponant only to have him insta check, obv with the checkfold button on, and then i bet out any turn card knowing he is weak. you can also use this to your advantage against good players, put the "check" button on when you have a superstrong hand, once the good player checks it will look like youve hit the check fold, when he bets the turn raise him...

the point of showing a few of these tells is that you should look at your own timing and think if you can improove, i like to take a little more time than most players, even though i genearllly know what im going to do before it happens. waiting a little longer will give you time later on to make a big decision and not give an opponant who is watching your timing tells anymore information about your holdings.

Nice post.

The delayed bet from me is exactly as you have explained 80% of the time.

The Auto check from me is also as you have explained 80% of the time.

Taking a little more time than needed is a good idea, as you have said, this gives more time to think about bet size without being noticed. I might start working on slowing down in general.

If this works for you then fair play. I personally wouldn't set to much stall by alot of the timing theories due to Multi tableing or connection issues. Players may act quickly due to a more pressing $ issue elsewhere. Players may act slowly for any number of multi tableing issues.

Anyway, thanks for the post, it is very upsetting/enlightening for me to know that I sometimes play with my hole cards face up!
  #7
2nd November 2009, 2:47 PM
WiZZiM
 
Plays at: Ftp, Pkr, Ps
Game: 8 Game
thats what im getting at, you will not be able to pick up any tells from a person who acts taking the same time for each decision.....


Im mainly talking about the lower limits and the weaker novice players, some of them fall into each of the tells above, and its so easy to exploit these people..

Sometimes even though you think your opponant is weak you wont be able to utilise these tells.. say your opponant raises to 3x the bb, you call in position with 76s and the flop comes AK10, your opponant quickly bets, you know that he is fairly weak, with a kinng a weak ace or something in that range, but its not the type of flop you can play back at him on.

say in the same situation the flop comes 3 8 9 rainbow, he makes that same quick bet at the pot, you could raise here figuring he is weak and will fold to pressure.



look its tough to give scenarios for timing tells, i look out for them all the time and they have helped me accumulate a lot of lost pots i would have just given up on.. look out for the timings they may tell you something about your opponants hand
  #8
2nd November 2009, 2:49 PM
WiZZiM
 
Plays at: Ftp, Pkr, Ps
Game: 8 Game
thats another thing to watch out for online, find out the players who are multi tabling, players who are playing more than 5tables are generally very good players, and yes, these players the tells will not be accurate
  #9
4th November 2009, 6:54 AM
mfturq
 
Plays at: pokerstars
Game: holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiZZiM
thats another thing to watch out for online, find out the players who are multi tabling, players who are playing more than 5tables are generally very good players, and yes, these players the tells will not be accurate
i also put less emphasis on the timing tells on players that are playing many tables... as it may be less about the decision they are making on your table and more about the decision they are making on another table
  #10
4th November 2009, 8:13 AM
JCW78
 
Plays at: pokerstars
Game: holdem
re: Online Timing "tells" poker

cant wait til i have the nuts and am delayed due to my internet connection. im going to clean up. lol
  #11
5th November 2009, 7:34 PM
RoyalFish
 
Game: holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pothole
So how do you deal with a player who makes every decision at the same time, whether it's check raise or fold?
Very true. I took that page out of Andy Beal's playbook. Sometimes I know exactly what I'm going to do before action gets to me, and regardless of check, fold, bet, raise, I still wait a random amount of time before acting.

Oh, and sometimes a delay just means I was getting a beer, coffee, etc. Or the dog is trying to eat the cat.
  #12
5th November 2009, 7:46 PM
moeraj
 
Plays at: carbon
Game: holdem
When I have a monster I will often delay before checking or calling as part of my trapping strategy. This works a lot of the time and gets me paid off.When you delay before calling it makes other player think you're having trouble deciding to make the call.
  #13
5th November 2009, 8:31 PM
Maid Marian
 
Plays at: FT/Carbon
Game: holdem
A difference may be that you have a newer player like me who's constantly changing strategy & trying to find out what works & what doesn't! Also never forget the human side of all of this...a player may be 'on tilt' or have a distraction that may hurry a call or raise...I have a cat that will jump onto my laptop & suddenly I'm raising rather than folding! Or vice versa!
  #14
5th November 2009, 8:48 PM
MrSticker
 
Plays at: PokerStars
Game: Yes, I am
I don't much believe in timing tells. There's so many explanations for pauses or quickness (especially in multitablers) that it's pretty much useless to consider them in a read, imo.
  #15
5th November 2009, 10:55 PM
MelasureJ
 
Plays at: Ultimate Bet
Game: NLHE
re: Online Timing "tells" poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSticker
I don't much believe in timing tells. There's so many explanations for pauses or quickness (especially in multitablers) that it's pretty much useless to consider them in a read, imo.
I used to believe this as well, but now i'm of a different opinion.

Watching my own game, I noticed it was a huge tell against me. Now I time out all of my betting/checking/folding. Not only does it delay your action, it disguises what you think of your hand, and gets people off of their game because they hate slow rolling. It works to your advantage more times than not.

Also, knowing my own tendencies, there are a lot of times I have made a call or push where I otherwise wouldn't have and been successful because I know what hurried or delayed action means in my own game. If it is a tell for you, it is also likely to be a tell in others.
  #16
5th November 2009, 11:34 PM
grafkarow
 
Plays at: FTUBPSCPBO
Game: any game
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfturq
i also put less emphasis on the timing tells on players that are playing many tables... as it may be less about the decision they are making on your table and more about the decision they are making on another table
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSticker
I don't much believe in timing tells. There's so many explanations for pauses or quickness (especially in multitablers) that it's pretty much useless to consider them in a read, imo.
These two count for me - and I bet for most multitablers.

I'm playing up to 8 tables, sometimes even on different sites, believe others are doing the same and vary my decision time whenever possible, too.

Alltogether I give timing-tells very limited credit but together with other tells it might complete the whole picture.
 



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