Omaha Can't Beat em Join em?

I love the game of Omaha, It's fast paced, great strategy, etc...

I've played omaha almost just as much as holdem, but the thing is the people that don't care....What do you do about the people that don't care. Whats the best way to play them? You have 4 cards so There is sooooo many draws out there. lets say you have AJQQ before flop. Do you raise knowing amatures will call with anything? I would like to keep playing omaha but I feel as if theres no playing it in smaller buyins/freerolls.

Maybe the smaller buyin ring tables arent as bad, but still not great. But the freerolls is where it just gets amazing sickning. all in with best hand usually loses to an outdraw almost everytime at full tilt. I see it soo much I might stop playing it all together. I just want to know Do other people get as frustraited as I do with this? I'm sure you do but I get so frustriated it makes me not want to play the game anymore. If you have anytips on Omaha, preflop raises, not to raise, go with the flow or what..I would love to hear some. Please respond and just let me know on how to handle these things better. Thanks everyone

Jeremy Hilsercop Hamilton, Ohio aka "BigStackJack

Omaha Hi/Lo Poker Guide

Omaha Guide - Part I: How to play Omaha
Omaha Guide - Part II: Preflop & Starting Hands
Omaha Guide - Part III: The Flop and Beyond
Omaha Guide - Part IV: The Importance of Scooping

You just might find some tips in there.

If for no other reason than I ask you to try this, please do it. Show up late!

I too love Omaha, either version. Being a FRW I am probably playing in the same tourneys you are. You (and I) know that the first 10-20 hands are murder. Usually I will get sucker cards, with danglers (the lone card that doesn't fit the other 3). Down deep I know I should fold. On those occasions I do fold early, I always stick around and go deep. When I forget, or otherwise allow myself to participate in those first 10 or 20 hands, I always find myself shortstacked and all the fun is gone.

Show up late! Better yet, show up on time, but don't play till things settle down.

It is better to have 1400 chips against other stacks of 3 or 4 K, than to have 200 chips against those same size stacks.

Thanks for the links JuiceeQ, that helped me a lot.

Thats what I like about this site, so much to learn.

Good luck at your tables

Great advice. And thanks for those links as well. they are a good help. And I'm gona take that advice lol, SHOW UP LATE. It is always the first hands that are really really crazy. Thanks again all. Gl And maybe c u at the tables!!! =)

I presume you play Omaha High, because you posted a High Hand and you play Pot Limit and not Limit.

My experience in Pot Limit Omaha (i play from 0.10/0.20 to 1/2) one Pot Raise is not enough to narrow the field. If I have a premium Hand like your AJQQ or Aces, etc. I want to narrow the field to one player. To accomplish that I sometimes min raise to reraise pot.

Often I just limp in preflop and easily let go after the flop if I dont hit.

Sometimes if you raised preflop and you hold only one Ace and an Ace shows up on the flop, you can raise Pot again, because most players put u on aces.

BigStackJack, if you read my opening thread, you'll see that I am addressing this subject from a slightly different point of view.

http://www.cardschat.com/f8/my-observations-91885/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f8/my-observations-91885/)

I can't really give anyone advice on Omaha as I'm somewhat of a newbie to that game haven't really come up with a good poker theory stragegy for it yet. On the other hand, I know exactly what I'm trying to do all the time in hold'em. But poker theory is secondary to my main point, anyway.

My point here is that instead of getting frustrated at what you call amateurs, think of it in terms of what do you have to do to win regardless of who you're playing. If the amatuer is winning the money or knocking you out of the tourney, than you have to adjust your strategy so that that doesn't happen.

I play in the freeroll tourneys alot, and usually find it fairly easy to get down into the last 100 or so. 9th place has been my best so far. I stick to a fairly rigid plan of what cards I play, and I keep a close eye on what kinds of cards the others are playing and I don't think in terms of who's an amatuer and who isn't. I think of them all as foes who could knock me out of the tourney if I'm not careful. If I think someone went all in with a lower hand than mine I'll call him with a top hand, but mostly I try to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket. Even if I have AA what good does it do me to call all in if I might get knocked out.

One strategy that works well against the all-in artists is to let them all knock each other out. And anyway, I really enjoy the people I meet late in the tourney, so I want to be there to enjoy them.

It's all about adapting to the situation you're in, and if you're losing to "amatuers", then maybe you should re-assess what you're basing your decisions on.

Good luck.

I think we talk about omaha cash tables, full ring. Omaha tourneys are complete different.

No not necessarily. The point I'm trying to make is relevant to any game any time. It's just a different way of looking at things.

I agree with u to do so in tourneys. U must protect your tourney life.

In cash games u play completely different, esspecially in pot limit omaha. Hand selection is very vital. And to know when to narrow down the field of players. Because of the 4 hole cards u have a complete other way to play and to think. In omaha the best hand AAKK double suited is only a slight favorite over other cards.

Have u ever tried to played in an omaha cash game mendozaline?

I have very little experience in Omaha at all, and less omaha cash game experience, but I do agree with you that we may be talking about two different things.

It's unclear to me how "protecting your tourney life" would be any different than "protecting your money". At least, that's how I look at it. I could be wrong, though.

In a tourney chips have a different value, especially in bubble situtations and end games. For further read look for the "indepedent chip model" its for sng players, but gives a value read about what I mean.

In cash games u can always reload, if u have the money. U can leave everytime when u have won a big pot or u exceed a limit. U can play as short Stack very aggressive and just reload, or u can play as big stack in cash games. Every game has an different approach. Also the stack sizes, the kind of players at the table, there are so many things to adjust while playing. An overall strategy 4 winning does not exist. There are more loosing players then winning players.

Thanks for the tip, but after reading a couple of articles in ICM, I can tell you that's way more complicated than you want to make it. It's sort of like talking about moments of inertia while studying the golf swing.

No, i think there are fundamental concepts that are much easier to grasp and use, and are much simpler to understand, and will take you much farther.

Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?

Wow, driffting in philoshopy. In truth I heard nothing by it by name before, but there is a management rule calling KISS (Keep it simple and stupid or Keep it simple and straight). I've read a lot of philosphy, esspecially the german ones, but it is going to far now to talk about philosphy.

Yes, you are right that you can makes things more complicate as they are, but I like to get as much as information as I could get, to make my own picture of things. Also I try to talk only about things I've a knowledge about and have practised it a little bit.

Back to Occam's Razor and your rule of simplicisity and the effects of poker in your play and in my sight. I would consider you as a rock. You play only the best hands, drop when you missed and raise when you hit. In freerolls best way to go, because most of the players play their cards regardless what happens arround and they dont recognize how other players act. There is nothing wrong with that strategy and in cash games I hate to play against rocks, but they have a advantage, I know mostly from their betting pattern when I'm beaten. But also I can easily outplay a rock. And a rock would never win a tourney.

Back to Poker at large. In every form of Poker, Poker is a game of uncertainly. You would never know the whole picture, as wouldn't your opponent. Its about bets "I think my hand is better than yours" and its about psychology, not philosophy, by saying "I make you think my hand is better than yours". And you dont know, what cards would come on the flop, rturn and river. Its about mathematics and statistic, you must know your odds and the chance of hitting your cards. Also you must know about bet sizes and how to size the pot to make calls not attractive for others. And its about reading skills, to put someone on a hand. And many things more. Poker is not a simple game and omaha is far more complicated.

GF, that's true a rock would have a hard time winning a tourney. I see how that is true very clearly. On the other hand, it gets you down to the final stages (last 10 of 100....last 100 of 3500...etc.). Ok, knowing that, and still wanting to win the tourney, a person is faced with decisions. And anyway, if someone thinks (is pretty sure) someone else is a rock he may start becoming predictable himself. I believe in the theory that too much bluffing is bad, and too loose is reckless, but some bluffing is necessary, and sometimes you have to be loose....

There's a fine line........the mendoza line.

If once style is getting you on or near the final table... then that's around when you need to mix it up and change your play. The players who make it to the end aren't the maddogs that started it out. Just sounds like you need to adjust at that point.