Ok this is getting silly

#1 22nd February 2008, 11:49 AM

I recently posted a thread about avoiding traps when you're playing in cash games. I grinded a profit of 100 dollars today at 25NL, all to have it washed away in two hands, where I flopped the nuts (straights), but got drawn out. I'm beginning to think there is some hole in my game rather than a streak of bad luck

If you can help with finding the problem please help!

#2 22nd February 2008, 11:55 AM

Hand histories please

#3 22nd February 2008, 12:01 PM

Ah sorry in my frustration forgot to put them up! Just the two where I got outdrawn or a small sample?

#4 22nd February 2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandra

Just the two where I got outdrawn or a small sample?

the 2 where you got outdrawn would be a start. If you do want constructive feedback, you'll have to give a bit more info than "I won some hands then I lost some hands. What did I do wrong?".

It is the nature of the game in No Limit that you can win 10 $5 pots and lose 2 $30 dollar pots, and be behind overall.

#5 22nd February 2008, 12:38 PM

Here's one rob, http://www.cardschat.com/hand/1820

#6 22nd February 2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandra

Here's one rob, http://www.cardschat.com/hand/1820

The perfect example of a cooler - you wont be folding the nut straight. He wont be folding top pair, top kicker with nut flush draw. One or other of you is going to be unlucky and get stacked, here it was you.

If you cant afford to lose $25 in one hand, you shouldn't play $25 max NL 6 handed cash games. End of analysis!

#7 22nd February 2008, 12:56 PM

Firstly, I cant believe the BB chks pf with AK sooooted. Secondly I'm not sure what your doing open limping with QTo. I don't limp from that position with this hand. In fact I probably dont play it from there period. Anyway's the rest of the hand well there's not a lot you can do, he has a hand and plenty of outs to justify his play, but it's a hand you would never put him on so you are a tad unlucky here.

#8 22nd February 2008, 1:27 PM

Preflop play is debatable by both of you for different reasons.

Post flop, the question I would ask myself is simple.

If I was the guy holding AK, would I have called? The simple answer is yes.

#9 22nd February 2008, 2:24 PM

There's no way villian is getting away from this hand. TPTK and the nut flush draw. You're a favorite post flop, 65% to his 35%, however preflop he is a 65% favorite. UTG+1, I fold Q 10 off suit preflop.

#10 22nd February 2008, 7:51 PM

I have to agree with The Slob. Villian wasn't getting away from this hand after the flop.Probably should have reaccessed what villian was holding after the flop.May have just called the reraise instead of all in.

#11 22nd February 2008, 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnt72

I have to agree with The Slob. Villian wasn't getting away from this hand after the flop.Probably should have reaccessed what villian was holding after the flop.May have just called the reraise instead of all in.

No. You have the nuts, there are 2 spades out there, you don't want someone drawing out. Even as it was the OP was ahead when the money went in. That's what you want, but on the other hand if it went the other way where you had TPTK plus the nut flush draw you're not folding that either. Nothing you can do there, that's poker.

#12 22nd February 2008, 10:37 PM

Not to hijack the thread but did anyone else notice the errors in the hand history (or am I just imagining things)?

Hero shows a pair of Kings
BB shows a straight, King high
BB wins the pot ($56.70) with a straight, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $59.65 | Rake $2.95
Board: [Js 9s Kd 8s 2h]
Seat 1: Hero showed [Ts Qd] and lost with a straight, King high
Seat 4: SB (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: BB (big blind) showed [As Ks] and won ($56.70) with a flush, Ace high

#13 22nd February 2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

No. You have the nuts, there are 2 spades out there, you don't want someone drawing out. Even as it was the OP was ahead when the money went in. That's what you want, but on the other hand if it went the other way where you had TPTK plus the nut flush draw you're not folding that either. Nothing you can do there, that's poker.

Seems there is one thing many online players do not realize nor understand when playing nlhe for cash, at any level. That is - the premise of "being ahead when the money went in".

That IS what you really want, but so many times we see comments posted that it wiped out an entire bankroll when the hand went bust. That's great if you have no problem grabbing that credit card and reloading, but seldom seems to be the case. It's a bankroll built up over time.

Not everyone is going to 'hit it lucky' or have every 'dominant hand' hold up, yet they are willing to bet the farm - lock, stock and barrel on that happening. Just my opinion, but getting into a 25/50nl with an entire BR is NOT a good move. Stay with the smaller stakes if $50 or so is all you have posted with the cashier. If you've tripled up or more, get some of it off the table, IMO.

Sure, winning $30, 40, 50 pots is exciting. You double or triple up, but also put EVERYTHING at risk. Poker is a risk game, but not when just 1 or 2 bets can wipe you out. A poker pro may have a $2mil BR for playing, but you won't see them bring it all to one table. If their 'best hand' gets busted, they reload and move on. They have a BR that favors playing odds, percents, marginal hands, whims, and the like.

Small BR? Stay with small stakes. You lose? No problem. Reload. I have a small BR (built from FR winnings) and would dearly love to play the 25/50 games, but I will wait until my $1 tourneys or 2/4, 5/10 produce a larger BR to back up my play - and my losses.

Bet big, or go 'all-in' when you are ahead, but do it with <5% of your BR, not the deed to the farm. If I lose the $5 or $10 I brought to the table or the $1 on the buy-in tourney and bust out, I'm busy reloading or finding another game to 'play on'. It beats not having anything but time to write in blogs or forums about my BR being all gone.

There may not be a hole in your game, just the fact that nl games attract many 'win big/lose big' players. It's the nature of nl games and when you look at the 'odds or percentages' on a hand being a winner, remember always that there IS that downside percentage.

Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug.

#14 23rd February 2008, 12:17 AM

wow that was pretty bad. it seems like u just having a little luck bad spree.. u played the hands right got it all into middle with best hand. sometimes its hard to throw away thebest hand preflop!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandra

Here's one rob, http://www.cardschat.com/hand/1820

#15 23rd February 2008, 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedlovely

Not to hijack the thread but did anyone else notice the errors in the hand history (or am I just imagining things)?

Hero shows a pair of Kings
BB shows a straight, King high
BB wins the pot ($56.70) with a straight, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $59.65 | Rake $2.95
Board: [Js 9s Kd 8s 2h]
Seat 1: Hero showed [Ts Qd] and lost with a straight, King high
Seat 4: SB (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: BB (big blind) showed [As Ks] and won ($56.70) with a flush, Ace high

I'M EMAILING FT ABOUT THIS.

And thanks so much for the advice guys.

#16 23rd February 2008, 6:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevadanick

Seems there is one thing many online players do not realize nor understand when playing nlhe for cash, at any level. That is - the premise of "being ahead when the money went in".

That IS what you really want, but so many times we see comments posted that it wiped out an entire bankroll when the hand went bust. That's great if you have no problem grabbing that credit card and reloading, but seldom seems to be the case. It's a bankroll built up over time.

Not everyone is going to 'hit it lucky' or have every 'dominant hand' hold up, yet they are willing to bet the farm - lock, stock and barrel on that happening. Just my opinion, but getting into a 25/50nl with an entire BR is NOT a good move. Stay with the smaller stakes if $50 or so is all you have posted with the cashier. If you've tripled up or more, get some of it off the table, IMO.

Sure, winning $30, 40, 50 pots is exciting. You double or triple up, but also put EVERYTHING at risk. Poker is a risk game, but not when just 1 or 2 bets can wipe you out. A poker pro may have a $2mil BR for playing, but you won't see them bring it all to one table. If their 'best hand' gets busted, they reload and move on. They have a BR that favors playing odds, percents, marginal hands, whims, and the like.

Small BR? Stay with small stakes. You lose? No problem. Reload. I have a small BR (built from FR winnings) and would dearly love to play the 25/50 games, but I will wait until my $1 tourneys or 2/4, 5/10 produce a larger BR to back up my play - and my losses.

Bet big, or go 'all-in' when you are ahead, but do it with <5% of your BR, not the deed to the farm. If I lose the $5 or $10 I brought to the table or the $1 on the buy-in tourney and bust out, I'm busy reloading or finding another game to 'play on'. It beats not having anything but time to write in blogs or forums about my BR being all gone.

There may not be a hole in your game, just the fact that nl games attract many 'win big/lose big' players. It's the nature of nl games and when you look at the 'odds or percentages' on a hand being a winner, remember always that there IS that downside percentage.

Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug.

This is why we use bankroll management. The general rule for cash games is to have 20 max buy-ins. So no matter how much you've won in a session, if you lose it all you still have 19 buy-ins. I personally do take it off the table if I double it but I've heard some argue that this is a bad decision. Poker is a bout the long-term, and if you play over your limits you turn it into a short term game. In the long-term, if you play winning poker you will win. In the short term, you can get unlucky and lose everything on the table. That's why we don't take our entire bankroll to the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandra

I'M EMAILING FT ABOUT THIS.

And thanks so much for the advice guys.

Emailing them about what? This looks a lot like you decided to edit the HH just to make yourself get pity about how bad a beat it was but forgot to change everything. Not trying to accuse you of anything, just saying what it looks like to someone who doesn't know you at all (which would be all of us I believe).

#17 23rd February 2008, 6:30 AM

There is a few key notes missing from the thread one which is even mentioned over and over again....it is online poker...very different from live games...that's just the beginning...

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