No quality hands!

This is a discussion on No quality hands! within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Just so everyone knows where I'm coming from I'll start by listing what I think are the "quality hands" I am referring to: AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ !! ...
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  #1
25th October 2009, 4:31 PM
Olddog21
 
Online Poker at: FullTilt
Game: Hold'em
No quality hands!

Just so everyone knows where I'm coming from I'll start by listing what I think are the "quality hands" I am referring to: AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ !! Ideally, I like to get one of these hands before I start betting my chips early in a tournament but from time to time I never get anything near a quality hand! Because of this I end up getting in with a chip stack that has dwindled down to 1000 chips (from 1500) From here I've almost put myself in a shovem all-in position (alls it takes is one decent pre-flop raise!) My question is...am I playing way to tight in the beginning?..Am I waitng way to long with just 1500 starting chips? Just for the record, half the time I win my first hand...half the time I lose my first all-in and am out looking for another game to play! Any suggestions....
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  #2
25th October 2009, 5:05 PM
Kenzie 96
 
Poker at: pokerstars
Game: holdem
Position, blind levels, position, how the rest of the table is playing, position, position, position, position, position, your starting hand is only one of the factors to consider.
  #3
25th October 2009, 5:44 PM
kidkvno1
 
Online Poker at: Ultimatebet
Game: holdem
I know that all to well, the only thing i could do in a game, to where i only got 10 hand, out of 150 hands, was to use position, bluff the pot..
  #4
25th October 2009, 6:00 PM
dj11
 
Poker at: PSFTUBPOSB&O
Game: Horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddog21
Just so everyone knows where I'm coming from I'll start by listing what I think are the "quality hands" I am referring to: AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ !! Ideally, I like to get one of these hands before I start betting my chips early in a tournament but from time to time I never get anything near a quality hand! Because of this I end up getting in with a chip stack that has dwindled down to 1000 chips (from 1500) From here I've almost put myself in a shovem all-in position (alls it takes is one decent pre-flop raise!) My question is...am I playing way to tight in the beginning?..Am I waitng way to long with just 1500 starting chips? Just for the record, half the time I win my first hand...half the time I lose my first all-in and am out looking for another game to play! Any suggestions....
I too prefer to not get aggressive early. And even with one of your premium hands, I will only be moderately aggro early. Truly, position and stealing are more profitable over the course of a tourney, and the big premium hands work so much better late in a game than early.

So, my suggestion is to be a bit less aggro with those premiums, and a bit looser with regards to what you start with, and where you start it with.

At other times I will start a tourney playing fast and loose with a very wide range of hands. It is not uncommon for me to show a VP near 50 for the first couple of orbits. I try real hard not to get into confrontations that will cost me dearly, but I still suffer the TPTK syndrome. Mix that with disbelief and disaster happens. But against a tight nitty table, it often works to my advantage giving me a bigger stack when the strategy changes.

Moral of the story might be that yeah, the premium hands are nice early, but at a table of thinking players they won't make that much compared to a consistent steal and semi-bluff approach. Keep in mind that the early stage strategy must change at about the 3-4th blind levels.

IMHO
  #5
26th October 2009, 1:20 AM
NOLA Red
 
Online Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: NLHE, OH/L
re: No quality hands! poker

I'm definitely in favor of playing only premium hands early too, but you have to watch for opportunities to take down a few blinds and early limpers when you're in position. It seems everyone agrees with that.

Another thing to remember here is that if you've been playing that tight and haven't played a hand in a long while, you can trade in on that table image once or twice by perhaps putting in a 2 1/2x or 3x bb raise with your Ax or suited A, or even KQ suited etc. from late position in an unopened pot or with a limper, maybe two, in front of you. If you get called you still have position going for you and not horrible cards, but a lot of times your table image at that point alone will shut the action down before the flop.

I also want to note that losing 1/3 of your stack to blinds before playing a hand is not the end of the world for sure. I would weigh raising/playing mediocre hands and losing to waiting and doubling up a smaller stack with a higher percentage winning hand. Personally, I'd rather double up the smaller stack than play a riskier hand in most cases. Short stack play is a part of the game and if handled well can put you right back into the game.

My motto: don't panic, play
  #6
27th October 2009, 3:57 AM
doops
 
Poker at: FullTilt
Game: Limit holdem
You might want to loosen up a bit on hand requirements from late position. The late position 3-4BB raise against the blinds wins more often than I would have believed before I tried it -- just don't do it every round. And cut down on the all-ins. Small ball play is effective as hell, and can keep you going deep. Yes, it's nice to have a comfortable big stack, but it's nicer to not get busted. It's perfectly possible to build a comfy stack with a bunch of smaller wins.

Also, don't panic if your stack has dwindled to 1000 by level 5. The blinds are still small, and you have wiggle room. Spend that time figuring out who might fold to a 3BB pf raise....
  #7
27th October 2009, 7:03 AM
LizzyJ
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: NLHE and PLO
Be patient. Let the other players eliminate each other and when the opportunity arises...steal. Observe which players are playing super tight and bluff them when you get the chance. But above all, DON'T panic. In the course of an SnG you will get your chance, if you are patient.

Also, if you are throwing away a lot of hands, you are getting a table image of being really tight. That will make it a little easier later on when you steal and bluff.
  #8
27th October 2009, 8:53 AM
RA2000
 
Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: holdem
To play tight at the beginning is good..
But you have to play other cards too!
It depends on your position and the other players at your table.
Use your image and play your position!
Play the low pairs too, if you hit your set you can double up...
Just try it and you will see that it works!
  #9
27th October 2009, 11:26 AM
cardplayer52
 
Online Poker at: full tilt
Game: holdem
when stacks are deep you can play lots of suited connectors small PPs even suited gappers from late position. its often very rpofitable to see as many hands as possible when the donkeys are still stacking off in the early stages.
  #10
27th October 2009, 4:39 PM
Smotpoker
 
re: No quality hands! poker

I love limping in with small pocket pairs, trips mining I believe they call it. I heard at one point the average winning hand in poker is 2 pair, so anytime I have a small pocket pair I'll limp in or even call up to about 3xBB PF.

Of course there is nothing worse than having pocket 2's, and the flop coming 2h, 3h, 4h. I will usually try and bet pretty big here to get rid of draws, but at the $1 SNG's on PS you'll probably get called by a draw anyway. Might as well be freeroll for the way some of these people play.
 



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