The New Short Stack Strategy

This is a play i learned about last week and i have used it with surprisingly great results. It is called the Stop and Go.

First of all, What is the Stop and Go?
The normal short stack strategy is, when you get good cards, put all your chips in the middle and hope for the best, but in this situation you are actually giving better odds to call you with any two cards than with this strategy. Here is how this play works - Some one raises the normal amount and even though you are the short stack, with reasonably good cards, you just call the raise with the intention of going all in after the flop. Ideally you are out of position but it really does not matter that much in the end because if you went all in pre-flop it is the same cards, situation, etc... By just calling the bet pre-flop and pushing on the flop your opponent will now have to call to see just 2 more cards instead of 5 with an all in pre-flop. This reduces the odds your opponent has to call and so it increases your fold equity hugely, especially 60% of the time when they miss the flop all together.

Here is an example- You are two hours into a tournament and the blinds are 150/300 and you stack is 1800, while the average stack is 7000 chips. You are holding AJ in the big blind, everyone folds too a player in late position who makes a standard raise to 900. the rest of the players fold and the action is on you, in this situation you could happily go all-in but our opponent will definetly be calling our re-raise and at best we would be 50/50 coinflip. But lets assume that our opponent is holding a pair of 8's. Rather than coming over the top, you call the raise which leaves us with 900 chips. The flop comes K 5 9, and we move all in. Our opponent is now faced with a tough decision to call if he didn't hit the set and is stuck with lower middle pair, therefore if they fold we take down a decent size pot with the worst hand, whereas if we pushed pre-flop we would probably be out of the tournament.

By increasing our fold equity it improves our chance of winning the hand, even if our opponent decides to call we are in the exact same situation as we would have been if we had pushed pre-flop. They would have improved there hand either way the chips went in, this way just gives us a better chance of winning without contest. The cards that come out on the flop have no influence on the way we play the hand as our intention at the beginning is to move all in at some point in the hand.

Only use this play heads up, it loses its value if there is 5000 chips in the middle and they are both getting 5.5-1 on there money to call. This play should be used sparingly though and only in certain situations against timid or passive opponents. If you have a great hand QQ+ push pre flop because you really don't need fold equity there, you want them to call, but if your stuck in a bind with mediocre-good cards try the stop and go next time your short stacked and tell me how it goes.

Credit to the Poker Bank who i learned the play from and got a lot of the ideas, its a great site that everyone should check out, i dont know who writes it but they are very informative and easy to understand.

Hope it works out! GL on the felts

Pretty good idea....very different from what you usually see short stacks do...they usually push all in with even 1 face card and hope to catch something...I'll give it a try myself!

I believe it was Harrington who had a theory I really liked in which when he had a small stack and picked up a monster he would bet half his stack, and then put the rest in regardless of the flop. Its a strategy I have had some success with. Half the stack would attract enough attention but not enough to seriously diminish the odds of your monster hand against a bunch of randoms.

I'm often short stacked, so will be able to give this a good try out. Thanks for the information.

Interesting concept - did you come up with this strategy?

i have done this from time to time and it will work, but its only gonna work so many times at the same table. like anything else, people either figure it out and call you, or they say screw it and call you. its actually a good thing to have in your bag of tricks, but i would be wary of falling in love with it.

This is something i'm DEFINATELY going to try! Never actually thought of this. Would usually just come over the top hoping for a fold.

I agree with ythelongface. If opponents figure out that you're using this, your EV is way way lower than simply pushing.

Here is a scenario that occured to me this weekend at a Gutshot FR where I should have used this play.

I had 77 with a mid size stack. BB- one limper and the SB had completed. I put them on mid strenght hands (maybe Ace-Small or King-mid since there were no raises)- nobody playing at this table seemed especially tricky.

I went all in hoping to steal the $ in the pot.

Limper called me with KQ. (he outchipped me by a few).

Flop comes 885 Turn was 3 River was Q ( )

If i used the stop and go here i think there was enough fold equity that he would have folded after the flop and I would have been still alive.

Instead my all in push screamed middle pair and he called me assuming a race (which of course he won- )

Hardly. The Stop & Go is reasonably well known among advanced MTT players.

It is true that you have to use this play sparingly against good opponents because they will figure it out eventually, but at the same time i think it will still be EV+ in the long run because of the fact that a little over 64% of the time your opponent will miss the flop, so taking away maybe 10% of the time when you will get called with ace high, and we have to remember that you will improve your hand about 40% of the time so you will not have to push with air, so after that in the long run i think this play is very profitable, maybe not as much in freerolls, but even then people don't like calling with nothing.

i like this, thanks for the share.
just wanted to point out that the size of the other player's stack will probably make a difference. in your ex with AJ vs 88 or any pocket pair that misses the flop...if a chip leader put 900 in preflop and you make it another 900 for him to gamble he will probably make the call without hesitation.

Is this something we can use in STTs?

Actually in STTs at least on Stars if you try to run a stop and go it won't let you bet at all, you have to check. They let you bet in MTTs though.

I tried this....the guy who raised my AK had pocket aces....perhpas it wasnt the best demonstration of how the strat works tho :-)

Not really anything you can do there...although if you didn't use the strategy then you would have lost anyway, because you would have pushed, gotten called, and lost.

I have used the strategy, relatively effectively, on a couple of occasions, but there is one issue with it that I have encountered: With high blinds, people try to steal from the button a lot, especially if they think they can push a short stack around. If you limp in from the SB (lets say with AJ like you used in your example) to a steal (with say, 45 suited), you are allowing them to see a flop when a reraise would likely elicit a fold. Even if they have the equity with their 45, often times they'll read you as having a pocket pair above 5, meaning their killed. Now, lets say they flop a couple draws or a low pair. At this point, when you push, they will be probably getting the odds to call with a flush draw, so you are up against a draw, rather than having already taken down the pot.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you just need to know how to use this strategy. You have to know whose aggressive (and likely to steal) and whose conservative (probably raising with a premium hand and also likely to fold if they miss the flop). Great strategy if used right though.

these have been awesome posts considering i seem to be always at the bubble..ima give them all a try and see whcih one works! thanks guys!

hmm this is an interesting strategy. i will try this next time im in this situation thanks for the help

Not cool. Albiet a 'little' funny

i think i've read greg raymer talk about this in another forum, even before he won the wsop

from a stealer's point of view, it's really harder to call a push on the flop than a 3bet preflop, which is why you'll get more folds that way

Definitely an interesting strategy and makes sense. Much harder to call the all in, especially on the flop when they only called you pre.

Depends what your stealing with. If you have a good drawing hand and you bet some draws, unless you read the other player as very strong (having 2 pair or better) you'll generally be getting equity on a flush or open ended straight draw. However, if you have 56 suited prefop, I don't think you'll be calling the all in.

That sounds like a move I will try a little more in the future. I have done it in late position but I never thought that it might work better in the early position. The logic make great sense to me.

I am new to the site can you tell me what STT & MTT means?

Single Table Tournament
Multi Table Tournament

Wow, when you think about it this really makes sense. I'm definitely going to have to try this out in the near future. I like the idea that, if they miss the flop, you have a less chance of getting sucked out on by some crazy donk... I'm really pumped about learning this concept, can't wait to try it out. Great Post SusieP!

I really like the stop-n-go for late game tournaments, especially when I'm shortstack. It's very effective. But, because it is so effective, you WILL get more action. That means a real double-up when you win, but it also means more suckouts. I'd save it for medium to high pocket pairs, because you'll often get called if your opponent caught any piece of the flop.

You have to decide whether you want to maximize your fold equity or your potential pot size. And that will depend on a lot of factors, including how close you are to the money and your opponents' stacks.

Thanks a lot mate! Really appreciate it and I will use this in future. I liked a lot how you explained the QQ and AJ action.

Ya that's a good method. I would use that on "short stacK". It makes perfect sense to me.

You would also be risking getting your chips taken on "post flop" though if you didn't hit.

I guess there's pros and cons to everything.

I would deploy this strategy.

To vote on this as being useful: I would say 8 out of 10.

Peace.

Thanks for the info. I keep getting called with those all ins and losing. I am sure it will help

Thanx for the info...will def give it a few tries and see how it goes....will report back and it would be nice to get other feedback on this.

Thanks to share this strategy with us, I'll try it but I'm sure that your oppo can read it after a few time

Been using the stop and go and it has helped me to build my stack back up quick well after getting close to the end of the road. Nobody likes to double up the small stack so I have used it as the newest weapon in my poker arsenal. You might need to change the Stop & Go to Vizio's end game come back move.

Yes it increases the fold equity but it decreaces the amount you win. Simply the bigger the risk is, the greater is the prize and vice versa .
I also dont agree with the exact same situation thing. Because if u are called on the flop most probably you will be behind and lose. You said that they will miss the flop %60 of the time and hit %40 of the time ok, but then %40 of the time
they will be playing for full stacks but and %60 percent of the time u will only win the amount that was put in preflop.

good one! i'll keep that in mind!
i had a lot of experience like that where after i busted out... i was thinking i could have won the pot if do that kind of strategy stop and go. very good post!!!