A new plan on building bankroll?

heres what i'm thinkin about doing tell me what you think.
If you play on full tilt your probly familiar with the token Sngs.
Grind it out in 6 handed sngs, 5-10 dollars. My stats are pretty decent in.
Get up 20-30 bucks.
Play for 26 dollar tokens with the winnings. say you win 2.
Use those 2 for a 75 dollar token. Say you win one.
Play in a 75 dollar 9 seater.

Now keep in mind if you can win money in the sngs, then you cant lose money, Your bankroll can take huge leaps if its around 200 bucks. From cashing in a 75 dollar 9 seater, Which in all reality you payed nothing to play in. What do you think?

this depends on how much youre at right now with your bankroll-its best to stick to the no more than 5% rule or else youre just asking for trouble-now with that being said if you feel like taking a shot anyways there is nothing wrong with that-but if your bankroll can sustain the plan you have by all means go for it-the_urge27

No, you paid $75 to play in it. It doesn't matter how you got the money, it is YOUR money now. Not some, if I don't use it I will lose it, bonus money. There are no short cuts to proper bankroll management, you may get lucky but keep playing over your limit and you will go bust.

By your definition, if I start with $100 and go in a $10 SNG and win $45, I should use the $35 profit to enter a big buyin tourney, because its not really my money? Well now I have $135 in my BR but if I lose the tourney I am back down to a $100.

7 words:

Bank
Roll
Management
Chris Ferguson
Variance
Ignorance
Hubris

well thats 8 but I hope you get it

What (where on FT) are these token games?

you guys must not understand....if i do good in sngs...I CANT LOSE money Playing in a token tourney. Or gettin th 75 dollar token into a 9 seater...Yeah you say i can lose money its my money now. Worst case scenario, im back where i started. So i dont see the harm in it. My br right now is right around 200. With a 3rd place in a 75 dollar 9 seater....it would be over a half of my bankroll...and if i dont cash...im back where i started...time to grind it out some more....i mean i use proper bankroll management...with a 200 dollar roll i wont go buy in a 20 dollar tourney or sng or anything like that. the only time i play in bigger tournies are with these tokens. i dont see the harm or how this is going against br management

worst case scenario is your not gonna win everytime so your bankroll will slowly diminish. and that 75 dollars can be used for other things.

I would think any stratagy that requires a win every time you play is admirale, but unrealistic. Long term I don't see how it works, but, good luck its you money.

no you dont have to win everytime, if i typed that i didnt mean to...im saying get up 20 or 30 dollars playing $5 6 handed sngs...i mean this might take and hour, this might take 3 days. who knows...then and only then start playing for the tokens with the profit from the sngs...if you dont win the tokens...start over.

It sounds like you are only bankrolled for $5 SnGs at the moment - I'd suggest just grinding it out, keep building up those lots of $30 that you mention and slowly but surely build your bankroll to the levels to play $10 SnGs - unless you think the standard there is much higher.

Buying in for 5% isn't that conservative in terms of BR management. If you risk your good days' work in the way that you are suggesting, which almost nine times out of ten will lead to you losing $26, then you are much more likely to find that a bad streak causes you to lose a significant proportion of your bankroll - then you'd have to move down a stake, which noone likes doing.

heres somewhat of my stats...
in $5-10 3-9 person sngs...i've only played in 127. cashed 53 times. 42 percent. and have a 10 percent ROI.
and playing the tokens...i've bought in 88 times to the $8.70. and won 35 tokens.. thats about a 140 dollar profit.
Maybe you guys say i dont have enough data I dont know? but those looked good to me

This works sometimes on Bodog:
Enter a beginner tourney and just sit out.
Most of the players are really aggressive and will knock 5-8 out before ur afk
chipstack depletes. Lol I did this one day with 5 tourneys all at the same time.
Spent around $30 for buy ins and made like $32. So guess its plausible to grind?

Yeah I mean if you built your BR from freerolls and have 10k just buy into the WSOP ME. After all worst case scenario you're back where you started.

Basically OP where you started is irrelevant. What matters is where you're at now. If you want to gamble (although still +ev if you're good, just extremely high variance and risk of ruin) this strategy is fine. If you want to build a BR what you're doing is not good.

Im so d*** sorry for posting this....i guess i dont see how you can compare losing 30 dollars (not near your whole bankroll)....to losing 10k (your entire bankroll)...gettin the money the same way. come on people i know what bankroll management means. Okay i dont need any lectures. Not once yet as anyone understood the concept im trying to get across in this thread

Perhaps I didn't understand. Before you play the $75 tourney, what is the amount in your BR? What could you withdraw from the site if you didn't want to play in it?

Hey its definetley a risk reward kind of thing. I would lean more toward keeping those. BAnk roll management. U still losimg the money just cause it was profit doesnt mean its like it doesnt exist. Maybe i misundersood but sounds risky.

How is this plan different from any other plan that involves taking a lot of money and gambling it once you are ahead?

you cant cash out a 75 dollar token...all you can do with it is play in a tourney. plain and simple. you cant turn it into cash whatsoever. let me try to explain this process with well rounded numbers as best as possible one more time.

Starting bankroll - $200
(play 5.50 6handed sngs for 5 hours.)
new bankroll - $240
4 buy ins 18 person $8.70 token tourney. 6th gets $14 top 5 get $26 tokens
win 2 tokens.....new bankroll $205
use 2 tokens for 9 seater, top 2 get $75 token, 3rd gets $66.
say win 1 $75 token. (if you happen to finish 3rd in one however new bankroll would be $271)

now theres only one more step as of now you would have:
bankroll of $205
1 $75 token

use $75 token....9 seater. 1st -$310, 2nd - $186, 3rd - $124

if you dont cash you have
bankroll $205....5 dollar more than you started the day with and racked up a crapload of ftps. However if you do cash you just won 50% of your bankroll, not dangering your bankroll in anything more than $5 sngs.
You guys say this is improper bankroll managment, and your investing money you shouldnt. I look at is as the only thing i might be investing in is Time. If i play all day and give myself a chance of doubling my bankroll, but in the end break even. I dont feel bad at all, i enjoy playing. If this all worked like the example above, you got in the 9 seater and finished 1st at the end. Your new bankroll would be $515, which would take a ton of playing in a matter of weeks to do playing $5 sngs. The point im tryin to make is grind it out with a small profit everyday. Or have 10 break even days, if your running bad in the $5 sngs wait til the next day. Then one day where you double your bankroll?
Does this make it any clearer?

how is investing $8.70 in a 26 dollar token sng, after your up say 30 on the day, how is that investing a lot of money? once again how bout read it all b4 you reply.

Put your fking shirt on you are blowing wind../. you are getting good advice here and reacting like a child who does too many situps

im blowing wind...yoru blowing something else...you got something to say usefull say it...you dont post garbage somewhere else. i typed more info further down. got that good?

Does not compute. What happens when you lose? That's what BRM is about, you don't always win. You won't always even get to the $75 token.

Basically you're saying "well it's easy to win $20, so I'll go win $20, then just gamble with it".

How is your situation any different from making $20 and using it to bet on roulette a few times in a row? If you lose you didn't lose anything from the start right?

once again how are you comparing a game of nothing but luck, with bad odds...to a game where your playing other players? of course your not always gonna win money playing the sngs. But i am 100% sure i can beat the $5 6 handed sngs...100 percent sure i can beat that level. AM i gonna beat it everytime NO. will i beat it in the long run yeah. So yeah some days i'll lose money in them and not have to go after my tokens, but those days will be far less than the others.

I understand what you're saying Petey and I think you have enough of a bankroll to do this and your risk of ruin is not great. The risk you're taking is either to speed up your progress ($300 at once) or slow it down (all those +$40 sessions before starting over add up)

The other people in this thread understand too and they are advising you against using your winnings this way because when you do go on a losing streak you won't have that extra reserve to fall back on (10% ROI isn't immune from variance)

what you have said is the best yet. Like im in no rush to cashout or anything. So if this failed 20 times...and i was back where i started i wouldnt be dissappointed. If i ran bad for a while in sngs and lost 50 bucks i would not be dissappointed, as long as i know im makeing the right decisions, i have no worries. I want to make correct decisions, over making money because i know in the long run if you make correct decisions you'll make money. I guess if i sit and just play $5 sngs i have the same positive or negative towards my bankroll as i do, this way i described. Like you said it might take longer, it might not. I don't know just when you win 3 digits at one time, you just feel great. if my BR went from 200 - 500 in a day...i would feel great. If my BR went from 200-500 in 2 weeks of sngs, i would feel wore out. But thanks for the best input on the subject yet.

I read it all. If you have the bankroll to play $8.70, then play $8.70 consistently.

Anything else is a poorly concocted scheme that increases variance in the hopes of luck.

But I'm sure you'll be different from all the other people who didn't have the patience to make money at poker and thought they had a system worked out.

And your sharkscope tells a *very* different story than you do about how good you are at SNGs and how consistently you win. Be completely honest with yourself: You aren't displaying the patience that winning poker requires and you are looking for a shortcut. You are not the first. You will not be the first to fail.

It's your money and your plan. If you have faith in it, go for it.

I would like to hear how it goes for you. Seems to me from your posts that you have already been trying it. How have you done in the $75 tourneys?

i played sngs for 2 years here and there...if you go to OPR where you can look at exactly $5 buy ins....you'll see i played more last month than the 2 years b4. And you'll say oh maybe i was wrong.
Also if you look at the graph on sharkscope you'll see some parts where there is a huge swing up or down. ......when you see a few where it looks like i lost 75 dollars....its when i used a 75 dollar token...which i payed 8.70 to get. so in all reality losing 8.70 .....on your sharkscope stats looks like you lost 75.

i thought this up a few months ago, never took it serious tho.. won 4 26 dollar tokens, and still had the BR i started with. I took 2 and finished 3rd in the next level up for $66, and won a $75 token. i was at a friends one night DRUNK. said im gonna use that 75 dollar token in a 9 seater now. got in the one where you start with 300 chips by accident lol. all in with AQ vs something worse. Lost. Then just used the other 26 dollar tokens for MTT's. and havent went back to it since. But i'm gonna play an occasional sng here and there this weekend. then try this full force monday.

A) No, it doesn't.

1) Refuses to listen to people who explain why his system is bad, meaning he didn't want discussion just validation...check.
2) Has losing sharkscope but reason why he thinks it shouldn't count...check.
3) Convinced a winning subset of his play over a short sample ($5 games in the last month) is his real ability level... check.
4) Has stated that he's impatient and wants to see a big score rather than steady games...check.

You are displaying all the classic signs of a losing poker player in denial. Accept people's advice who know more than you (not me, the several others in this thread), and maybe you can turn that around.

why dont you look at my opr and tell me if im a losing player?

5-10 dollar sngs 3-10 players
$5 - $10 $802 $88 12% $6 7 0% 54/128 42% 20,28,4
buy in prize profit roi abi afs r/a itm 1/2/3


out of those 128.......67 were 6 seaters last month. with a 24% roi....so i've played in 128 in my full tilt career (2 years)....67 last month. looks like i got serious about sitngos, for the first time ever. If you notice b4 i was down in STTs...and up in Mtts. Now im up in both.

you shouldnt even be giving advice on here.....62 total tournies on full tilt with $148 in prizes? 139 on pokerstars with $205 in prizes? yeah thats sngs and everything....and your ragging my 1400 tournies, which when you opr you will see im a winning player? you think your right about everything. think you got my stats down pat. think again. Im not the losing player. oh hold on your not either. Your a rookie, you might have more freerolls on me or something. I'm not saying oh im the man, im not. I'm just saying b4 you start running someone down as a losing player when you can simply go to officialpokerrankings.com and see there not. Have some decent stats yourself.

That's why I said listen to the other players on this forum. I'm not the one who is claiming to have figured out a new system that flies against conventional wisdom and has been rejected by several actually good poker players in this thread. You were the one whining early because you thought people didn't read your posts, and here I clearly stated that I do not consider myself a particularly good player.

(Oh, and poker forum tradition requires I challenge you HU4ROLLZ now)

I probably shouldn't get involved in this, but aside from questioning how good your plan is, why post your plan if you don't want to discuss it?

And like the others, I see no difference between this plan and playing progressively higher Sng's.

i never once said i was a good player. But am i gonna defend myself when someone says something thats not true and is easy to look up (losing player?) yeah. I didnt start this thread to start a pissing contest, nor did i say once that i figured out a new system, "that flies agaisnt conventional wisdom." I proposed the idea of it. I have won 26 dollar tokens b4, and 75 dollar tokens b4. But i never won them for this purpose. so here you are posting more unfactual information. whats this now the 9th time? And i listened to every one of them. but i need a lil more depth and willus finally went into that. I repeatedly saw the same thing in 4233209023 posts in a row.
one more thing tho by any chance are you a republican kyle...u sure can make stuff up like they can.