Needling your opponents for fun and profit?

Ok, so now and again I get these fine upstanding individuals who want to tell me how much I suck, and how much my various ancestors suck, etc. By and large, I don't care, but occasionally I'll figure "Hey, if you -wanna- tilt, why shouldn't I help you along a bit?"

Just curious what everybody thinks about it. Yesterday I was playing a game with the usual "You're such a donkey" talk and decided to cement that for 'em, so on the button, I standard raised with trash to steal from Mr. Matusow Jr, who, to my ever so mild annoyance, called. No worries, we get a flop with lots of big cards innit and he apparently missed, so he checks it to me. I make a smallish bet hoping it'll look like I -want- a call, he folds, I show utter garbage, and he proceeds to describe the events leading up to my birth in colorful language. Not sure if he was accurate there, and I'm pretty sure some of it isn't even anatomically possible, but you get the idea. Tilt Achieved.

Then I got to thinking how that wasn't necessarily optimal. He's sure to look me up a lot easier now. I had a decent chip lead, and in fact that little steal had just about crippled him, but I thought after that anything I raise him with I better be prepared to show down, cuz he probably wasn't going to let me do it again. I guess my gut feeling is that it was strategically unwise, at least late in a tournament where there's not a whole lot of maneuvering room. We weren't heads up yet, either, so I'd also tipped my proverbial hand to the rest of the table to some degree. Then again, maybe it's a good thing to have the final couple knowing that I can raise with any two.

RF

So now instead of folding to your misses c-bets he may now call you down light?

The problem with provoking fish is that its difficult to fully know how they will react. He may bluff, he may value bet only, he may start check raising with air, he may .... well do you know?

I think the idea of putting someone on tilt appeals to people because it implies that they have been able to manipulate their opponents decisions.. because they put hiim on 'tilt'.

But with fish, you have an opponent who already makes bad decisions, so putting him on tilt just means you have to re-evaluate what his bad decisions are.

Lets say he raises the next 2 orbits and you are dealt KQs, you 3 bet, he calls, the flop is Kxx he checks you bet, he calls, he donks the turn, you call, he shoves the river what do you do? He is on tilt right because you put him on tilt... this is exactly what you were hoping for, so you call.. he flips over AA.

Under normal circumstances you would fold, but because you 'put him on tilt' you surely must be looking to gain from this.

So TBH I think against fish its highly over rated.

Against solid players its probably more worthwhile.

I think this is a great play because it sets up future hands as long as you play them properly. Playing improperly would be as Stu suggests - just because a player is on tilt doesn't mean they don't have a hand. You have created a maniac image so that when you have a monster you can cash in.

It is similar to one of my favourite plays heads up: if I'm dealt AJ, say, in the BB and the SB completes or min raises I'll shove all in. The villain folds. I do the same with my next strong hand. With a bit of luck I soon get another premium hand and do the same again. The number of times I get called with Ax or QTo to my AK is amazing, and profitable. I reckon the villain has figured I am trying to bully with ATC and is convinced they have caught me out.

The moral here is to look like a maniac to get people to loosen up their range, in reality you are still a TAG player - they are bound to start making mistakes.

I think this is a great play because it sets up future hands as long as you play them properly. Playing improperly would be as Stu suggests - just because a player is on tilt doesn't mean they don't have a hand. You have created a maniac image so that when you have a monster you can cash in.

It is similar to one of my favourite plays heads up: if I'm dealt AJ, say, in the BB and the SB completes or min raises I'll shove all in. The villain folds. I do the same with my next strong hand. With a bit of luck I soon get another premium hand and do the same again. The number of times I get called with Ax or QTo to my AK is amazing, and profitable. I reckon the villain has figured I am trying to bully with ATC and is convinced they have caught me out.

The moral here is to look like a maniac to get people to loosen up their range, in reality you are still a TAG player - they are bound to start making mistakes.

Given the right circumstances, an in position bluff with 7-2 or equal garbage is a fun move when they all fold and you show the bluff. I have done it at a tight final table a couple of times to try and get things moving. It can be dangerous if you get called, though. Then you have to decide how far you want to carry the bluff. You did well.

The whole idea of talking to people to get them on tilt isn't something I mess with much. I would rather ignore what people are saying since you never know if they are legit or playing head games as well. There have been times when I just shut off chat or put certain people on ignore in order to prevent getting baited. The chat/table talk is definately a tool and can be powerful when used properly. I, however, have no idea how to do it correctly, so I avoid it!

I agree with the snipped part though I don't believe that solid players are easy to put on tilt like this (that's why they're solid ).

The only thing I say in chat during my micro stakes vs loonies in SNG/MTTs is: "Tadaaaaaaaaaaa pink tag awarded".

What I do want to achieve:

- Others (not necessarily me) will be calling him lighter
- He might want to know what the pink tag is...lol (and show me that he's not quite the moron he apparently is)
- He might talk shit back (I couldn't care less aslong as he's losing concentration)
- I establish an image of being nitty/tight which may be the case generally but not in every hand.

I used to try this tactic heads up, but some react totally differant, some start to play their A game and it backfires on you, so i generally only needle the angry guys, hoping to get them on tilt..