Need help reading hands...

#1 15th March 2009, 2:34 AM

Okay-I couldn't resist. I took the donktest that was posted and I scored kinda poor. I guess I really can't read hands as well as I thought I did. So now I turn to you guys. What book/website/psychic should I turn to to better myself?

#2 15th March 2009, 2:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lektrikguy

So now I turn to you guys. What book/website/psychic should I turn to to better myself?

CardsChat.

#3 15th March 2009, 2:47 AM

Try to estimate what hands would a person call a bet to on the flop with. Are there flush draws / straight draws, Could they have an overpair / overcards / or slowing playing a monster. This is where watching your opponent becomes important. Most reasonable players will play pretty typical hands, like pocket pairs, high cards or suited connectors. For practice I try to put people on hands when I allready folded. It's a good way to learn.

#4 15th March 2009, 3:41 AM

Read a book or play alot of online poker and it will eventually come to
you without seeing their face
at the casino is a different story but i find that paying attention to their
betting patters really helps were ever you are at

#5 15th March 2009, 3:50 AM

I was listening to strategy show recently (not sure which one) but the key is you put an opponent on a range, yeah people sometimes guess the exact cards, but it usually starts with figuring a range that your opponent would play with, and then limiting the choices due to betting patterns etc. asking yourself, would someone play that hand like that. If you're playing low or especially micro, it might be kinda hard when half the people you play with have a any 2 card range.lol.

#6 15th March 2009, 4:18 AM

How important is gut instinct? Sometimes I think that an opponent has the "nuts", yet I'm pot-committed somewhat, and I have strong trips or something. Let's say that move would cost me all of my chips (all-in).

Sometimes, I want to call because I think my hand is strong, but my opponent seems to be saying "my hand's the best."

#7 15th March 2009, 1:04 PM

no book helps imo. u need experience. the more you play, the more experience you are going get. Maybe a training site can help if you have fundamental errors.

#8 15th March 2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidmark

no book helps imo. u need experience. the more you play, the more experience you are going get. Maybe a training site can help if you have fundamental errors.

Books have helped me a lot. Different people prefer different ways of learning. Experience alone isn't going to teach you some of the things that books can teach, particularly some of the mathematical concepts.

#9 15th March 2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoWuckingFurries

Books have helped me a lot. Different people prefer different ways of learning. Experience alone isn't going to teach you some of the things that books can teach, particularly some of the mathematical concepts.

Books can teach alot, but since this thread is about hand reading, experience, is the only thing that can help you with this, which is why I assume skid says books wont help. I have read alot of books and havent found that special handreading section yet. If someone has please let me know.

#10 15th March 2009, 11:19 PM

Books have helped me to put people on a range of hands, too. I will allow one of our resident experts on poker books (such as AlienGenius) to tell you which sections of which particular books cover it, but they do.

#11 16th March 2009, 6:18 AM

Keep on playing and watch the people and their bets.
Also watch them if you are not involved in the hand!
Then guess what they are playing.
You will never know exactly....

#12 16th March 2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoWuckingFurries

Books have helped me a lot. Different people prefer different ways of learning. Experience alone isn't going to teach you some of the things that books can teach, particularly some of the mathematical concepts.

to learn the fundamentals i think training sites are the better choice and more effective rather than books. And the rest is experience as most of the people here agree.

#13 16th March 2009, 12:53 PM

A friend of mine read a book and he told me that it says to fold ak if you dont hit on the flop well no one on line ever read that book because they wouldnt fold it even if their life depended on it. AK is great to raise with but when your called you ususally lose.

#14 16th March 2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidmark

to learn the fundamentals i think training sites are the better choice and more effective rather than books.

I can tell you what suits me, I can't tell you what suits "most people". I am not arrogant enough to assume that because something suits me, it should suit everybody else too. Personally I would say that trying to put people on a range of hands IS one of the fundamental skills of poker.

Quote:

And the rest is experience as most of the people here agree.

People generally come here to try to improve their poker skills, and there are various ways of doing that, I would rather point out to them the different ways that are available and let them decide which suits them best.

#15 17th March 2009, 5:21 AM

I really can't believe the consensus of people advocating 'not' reading books in this thread!

My experience gives me a better idea of what to look for in the books I read. And the books I read give me a better idea of how I want to change my experiences or practice.

Sorry folks but there really must be a balance.

So not to piss further on the thread with some silly argument, here is something constructive to the main question.

Books.....

I personally find Phil Gordon's entire "littlebook' series helpful.
I also like Winning in tough Hold'em Games by Nick Grudzien and Geoff Herzog (mostly because of the "hand reading" sections)
Not to forget the classics like Mike Carro's book of tells, and David Sklansky's The Theory of Poker. But a few more promo books are gaining popularity like The Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide: Tournament Edition (maybe because it has like a dozen pro authors contributing)

Websites.........

CardsChat of course. But if you have a few dollars to spend I strongly suggest Stoxpoker and Cardrunners. But I understand that Fulltilt has spent a few bucks on developing their own poker academy. Each can help you and each has complete study and practice courses to help you along the way.

Psychics.........

Stick with psychology and not psychics. Where's Deion Warwick when you need her anyways?

#16 17th March 2009, 5:33 AM

Yup, don't read books, they won't help you with understanding different strategies which might help you to read hands and to see the level of playing ability of your competition.

Then bring your bankroll to my table.

Seriously, if you read Harrington's examples it's all about putting you opponent's on a range of hands given your general reads, the situation, and the action so far. Gordon does the same in his Blue Book, which is all examples.

#17 18th March 2009, 11:40 AM

Reading books has never hurt anyone. Along with experience and watching the table. Maybe i'll win yet.

#18 18th March 2009, 3:17 PM

Hi.

First you have to read about poker, about hands, about people playing poker. The books may seems to you like boring or something like that, but they teach a lot, maybe not inmediatly, but with time and games you'll see that the teachs from book are really helpful.

And, of course, you must see how other people play, just go to a table where's money involve and watch.

Bye.
manalva

#19 18th March 2009, 3:29 PM

The easiest way to start to learn to read hands is to pretend everybody plays like you, this enables you to put them on a hand range consistent to the betting of what you would have played.

If you encounter different information from that player when the showdown comes adjust your range for them depending on what you saw. Using the note box also helps at this point.

Read the Harrington on holdem books for stratergy and techhiques, there a bible of information.

#20 18th March 2009, 4:08 PM

Here is a link you mind find interesting.

#21 18th March 2009, 5:00 PM

The betting pattern of your opponent will tell a story. Your job is to understand what that story is, and whether the story book goes in fiction or non-fiction.

I would suggest you read up on why people bet in the first place. If you understand why someone has made a pot-sized bet on the flop instead of half the pot, you'll pick it up in no time.

Protip: Never, ever bet just for information. Period. Always bet for a reason, just not that one.

#22 18th March 2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveg1976

Here is a link you mind find interesting.

Very interesting, thanks for that!

#23 19th March 2009, 11:12 AM

Cardrunners for cash and PXF for mtts gl

#24 19th March 2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2kfactor

Cardrunners for cash and PXF for mtts gl

DC for cashi savvy+ for mtts imo.

#25 21st March 2009, 3:56 AM

Here you go Enlace(and everyone else). Probably shoulda posted this in the first place. Originally posted by CursedSoul-thanks.

http://www.donkeytest.com

#26 23rd March 2009, 2:23 AM

Its not really a question of what books you should take, but the
expirience you gain at the tables... That expirience is priceless cause
there isnt any book of ticks that is 100 percent accurate.. you have to
be able to adapt yourself to the games. But if i were to recommend
come books i would say that you have to read doyle brunsons
supersystem and david negranues book, but i forgot the title...
good luck at learning to read! lol that sounded kinda different
but oh well hah

#27 23rd March 2009, 2:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerjunky

Its not really a question of what books you should take, but the
expirience you gain at the tables... That expirience is priceless cause
there isnt any book of ticks that is 100 percent accurate.. you have to
be able to adapt yourself to the games.

A combination of reading and experience is great. Experience alone is not ideal, and obviously you can't become a great poker player just by reading books.

Quote:

But if i were to recommend
come books i would say that you have to read doyle brunsons
supersystem and david negranues book, but i forgot the title...
good luck at learning to read! lol that sounded kinda different
but oh well hah

Daniel Negreanu

#28 24th March 2009, 7:28 PM

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...#Post 8629256

someone else posted this once upon a time, but i found it very helpful

#29 24th March 2009, 11:16 PM

Reading your opponent online isn't even possible. To be able to read your opponent, you have to see him. You can play a gut feeling online, but that's in no way a read.

#30 25th March 2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munkie

Reading your opponent online isn't even possible. To be able to read your opponent, you have to see him. You can play a gut feeling online, but that's in no way a read.

You can put an online opponent on a range of hands without needing to see them.

#31 25th March 2009, 9:39 PM

I feel how fast someone raises or calls shows they have something and slow means bluff or the nuts

#32 26th March 2009, 3:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishlatent

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...#Post 8629256

someone else posted this once upon a time, but i found it very helpful

Yeah...Steveg about 8-10 posts above you. Anyways if anyone here hasnt read this link, GO DO IT NOW. GREAT ARTICLE

#33 28th March 2009, 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidstender

I feel how fast someone raises or calls shows they have something and slow means bluff or the nuts

This isn't true. Most people prefer a fast paced game and play accordingly to get them chips fast. Slow might mean connection problems or maybe a random phone call interruption or even trying to get the slider bar to the right monetary value of the bet when you can't type the value in. Personally, I play slow just to annoy those folks that take 20+ seconds to make a decision. I let the time clock go down to the last second before I make a decision and piss a few people off in the process. I do this a couple of times and the play picks up or they leave the table sometimes with a few angry others.

#34 28th March 2009, 9:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lektrikguy

Okay-I couldn't resist. I took the donktest that was posted and I scored kinda poor. I guess I really can't read hands as well as I thought I did. So now I turn to you guys. What book/website/psychic should I turn to to better myself?

Pay close attention to your table when in a hand and when not in a hand.
Make notes on what a certain player bets/calls/raises with and within all the notes you make you will start to see a pattern emerge and with careful scrutiny, you will start to be able to put players within a range of hands based on the size of their bets

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