The Myth of Middle Position?

So are you saying you don't think we should be adding hands from EP to MP? So you think a hand like AJo which may not be profitable from EP is also unprofitable from MP? Give me a specific example.

Let me re-state what I was getting at:

from UTG I make very little money
from the Button I make a lot of money
from seats 2-5 their is no statistical correlation between position and the amt I won. (See attached).

Attached Images

119x.jpg (57.3 KB, 50 views)

There are less people to act after you, there should be a statistical correlation. It is interesting you don't have one.

This is what I was thinking.

I don't get it. Other than a little variance from seat 4 (we are only talking about 24K hand samples) I see a clear increase in profit from EP thru LP. Am I missing something?

Also the AA/KK stuff is kind of meaningless other than it explains the variance you see from seat 4 (AA 132 times from that position).

Also if my calcs are correct your BB/100 from UTG is only 1.67BB/100 or less than 60% of mine. I think you may be doing something wrong considering I play almost twice as many hands from UTG and my numbers where from 50nl and 100nl where technically WRs should be much lower. I guess what I'm saying is play looser! Actually what I'm saying is that you need to work on your game. There is no way your WR should be less than mine (I suck) from UTG when you're playing that tight of a range in a game where all your opponents suck.

In a vacuum you are probably right.

The reason to play more hands is 2 fold.

1.) you have got better at value betting, its no good playing weaker hands if you dont know when to bet them for value and obviously as they are weaker the return per hand is less.

2.) to widen your range. The great thing about 2nl is you can play like a nit and still get action when you get a big hand. As you move up and up people know what your range is, what hands do well against that range and simply refuse to give you action unless they are beating you.

If an 8/7 3bets me Ill lay down QQ!

If an 8/7 does something like raise me postflop, I may well call that raise but I'm looking to fold should he make a large bet or reraise me again.. its just obvious what they have most of the time.

I see no real difference in profits from seats 1 (CO) to 3 (MP2). There are huge differences at the poles (Button & EP). The hands that seem to gain most as you get closer to the button are middle pocket pairs and weaker Aces. Drawing hands like KQ, KJ, etc. really don't become consistently profitable until the button.

My UTG numbers being bad may be from an inability to lay down overpairs???

I am starting to loosen up as after a month of 8/7-7/6 I am no longer satisfied with my play.

Probably not...

I'm a little cloudy on what you're looking for here...

You're profitable from each position you listed right? That's not bad...

IF you're looking to make MORE money then you need to play more hands, IMHO. Your HJ stats look like my UTG stats...

What's your BB/100?

I think you may be right. I've been thinking about why my 2nl winrate is 'marginal'. I think in part because I have shoved too much or called too many large River bets with only a pair. I think the other reason is I simply am not playing enough hands. Mainly by folding pocket pairs preflop needlessly.

I am treading water today waiting for my transfer to Stars. While doing so I decided to play 2nl but change it up.

First and foremost: I turned off my HUD!!!!!!!!! PT3 was running to import my hands but no HUD, I just played Poker and paid attention to the board. I still 12 tabled but was way more tuned in to the action.

Second,I decided to open all pocket pairs from all positions and not to 3bet except with AA/ KK. The other major change I made was to make my preflop raises smaller (usually 3xbb) and my postflop bets smallish unless I had a Big hand or was trying to protect my hand on a draw heavy board: 25-40% of the pot but to bet almost every street I was in a hand. Amazingly so many villains would call preflop,flop and turn but fold to a small River bet. Obviously they were missing draws but often so was I but since I had the initiative I often took the pot. I also got a lot of calls when I had a very strong hand because I bet small enough to keep them calling. Aside from the AK on a KK7 hand I only shoved with the nuts and folded top pair several times on the River.

Results:

Played 696 hands.

VPIP: 11.78
PFR: 7.61
AF 3.50
3bet 1.55

Now that may sound really tight but for a month+ I've been running 8/7-7/6.


Despite taking it in the f*ng sh1tter with a nut flush that lost to a River Full House and Trip Kings with AK on a KK7 board to another boat I ended up
winning $ 3.92 for a winrate of 14.08 BB/100.

Now if you look at Chiren80's stats for 6max they translate almost exactly in terms of VPIP/ PFR/ AF/ 3bet% (and winrate) to the session I just played.

Thoughts?

in MP you get to have position against EP raisers/limpers

I make more money mid pos than all the other positions

forrealzz?? can u post screeenshot?? i dont belive u silly

I think you're wrong dude. You may just not be playing aggro enough pf