My MTT Strategies

I have had quite a bit of success in Mtts and have been ask by some CC members to share some of my strategys and thinking regarding MTTs.To read about some of my successes or send congrats,Please post here.

Snow in the forecast


My goal is to have an ongoing thread where i post interesting situations I encounter and how I respond.

I would really like anyone that is involved in any of the situations I describe to please give your perspective, and strategy questions
are welcome,I will answer as best I can.


Most of what I can tell you,you will find in other places here and explained much better than i will be able to!I will answer any questions to the best of my ability,but some of my plays come from experiance and arn't easily learned reading a post

Also getting lucky in MTTs always helps,and to win multiple tourneys in a row takes a little devine intervention imo.It also takes some risk on your part as you can't fold your way to a win.

With that being said,I will share with you my thought process in varying parts of MTTs.

Before I start an MTT, I try to clear enough time to play without distraction,get the dog fed and walked ect.I also try to clear my mind of things outside of poker and focus on what is happening at the table.

When a MTT begins,as we all know the blinds are low in comparison to your chip stack in a normal MTT (im not a fan of Turbos),The blinds often 10/20 with 1500 chips.So you have an M of 50 (all blinds plus antes divided into your total chips).After the 1st few rounds,I will always know my M as well as the M of the others at the table (I know this sounds like a lot to do but when you get use to it,it is not that hard).I have had some people tell me that math isnt important, and I still disagree with them as i am calculating almost constantly during MTT.

Early in Mtts, i like to get in there and see some flops and try to hit a big hand and hopefully double my stack because chips = power.If I have more chips than others than I can control the table to some extent.You have to know the players at the table.The sooner you know how they play,the easier this game gets!If the people that act behind you like to call and see a flop,then i love hands like 67 suited,pocket 3s (to set mine).If you have people that like to raise and reraise,then I will fold these and wait for a better spot.I hate putting chips in a pot voluntarily, then folding (but this skill is necessary at times.)

Poker is a game of constant adjustment to potentially many factors,or sometimes 1 factor is all you need to know to make your decision.An example: I am in the small blind 25/50 for example (all others have folded) and I have 4900 chips and the BB has 400 chips.His chip stack dictates that i put pressure on him by raising with any 2 cards.The worst that can happen (which I am always calculating) is he takes 425 chips from me (complete the blind plus his 400).I have very little to risk and he has his whole tourney at risk if he calls.In this situation my raise will put him all-in.I never mind when they fold, and I love when I suckout on them.I have had 1000's of players leave the table mumbling to themselves "How can he suckout on me with 8 3 off when I have pocket Ks, "He is just Lucky and Stupid" which has many variations and levels of indecency and I enjoy them all with a big ole grin .In this situation it is because the situation dictates that I put pressure on you,this was why I raised and nothing to do with my cards

As the blinds escalate and players start busting,Your M becomes more and more important,as is all the others stacks, and their tendencys.I do not use a HUD,but this can be helpful for picking up other players tendencys.
I learned my style before HUDS were even popular, and I have tried them,but I think my own observations are worth as much as the info I get from HUDS.I have a nice book in my head of the CC regulars and in some spots,it has been critical in some of my wins.

I am going to break this up into a few posts to keep it from being a book.

I will start on Middle tourney Strategy and post soon!

As I said in the beginning ,I will answer all questions to the best of my ability,also Im not going to argue over ANY of my points I make and I will surely say some things that others may not like or believe as we go.I respect your opinion but this is my opinion,thanks!




Snow

Middle stages of a MTT


Through a tourney,I am constantly balancing (for lack of a better word) all the information I have gathered (and prior history with other players) with my hand and their range of hands and the MTT situation that Im in (Chips,Blinds ect).There are so many specifics involved in any situation,so the answer to questions is often "It depends".In general as my M shrinks I look for a place to double up,When I have an M to be patiant,then thats my preferance.If someone bluffs at me alot then ill use that against them when i get an opportunity.

Through the Middle part of the tourney I am trying to put myself in position to win,with the least amount of risk as possible.Sometimes thats folding and sometimes that is pushing your stack in or a bet somewhere inbetween (most of the time).It depends on the rest of the info available.

I read in another thread that you should not watch the leaderboard in the tourney lobby and only worry about your table.I have my lobby up all the time and watch all information on it.I want to know where Im at compared to the leader and who are the people at the top.If I see Pifan,Trigga Los,Chiefer,Savage Penguin.Joe Showdown,ChapelTuno,Dakota-XX ect (there are alot more great players I left out) then im going to make a play soon because I realize the road is tough and im going to need chips.If I see names that i know I have an advantage on,then I will remain patiant and look to exploite the weakness at my table.

My goal is always to be the chip leader going into the final table,but that just isnt realistic and learning short stack play is a must.


Next:Final Table and short handed play




Snow

Final Table and short handed play

Ok,you survived the early donks and that time you shoved with JJ vs KK and caught your J on the river.You arrive to the final table,now what?

Well,you count on your 9 man SNG experiance to carry you to the win!
You mean you havnt been practicing any 9 man SNGS?
Oh Oh!You are at a big disadvantage.

9 man SNGS are the best training ground for final table experiance.You learn to adjust your starting range,bet sizing,ect for the game situation gradually from tight to loose as players bust and blinds rise.

This experiance cannot be replaced,the only way to learn is to get in there and do battle.

For any that think there is a trick or gimmick to winning your fair share of tourneys,you will do better to work on leaks in your game and study to get better

I will post additional ideas as long as the thread has interest and I have something to add.




Snow

Ok 9/24/09

Picked off another tourney WIN today.

It was a classic win imo in the respect that I threaded water until mid tourney and then went on a vicious run,I believe I busted 9 or 10 of the last 11 players in the game and dominated the final table.

A key hand mid tourney,1st position limped and 3rd position raised to 600 from 150 with a stack of 1200 or so.I have pocket Qs which can be a kinda risky hand all-in pre-flop.With an M of 8 (for the raiser) and the blinds the next hand coming, i felt this player was anxious and needed a pot.I dont lay Qs down alot,but a definately do at times.My biggest worry was someone behind me pushing with a bigger pair and I have half my chips in the pot.Everyone folds back to raiser and they called with Js and my hand held up.

As the final table started I had nearly twice the chips as 2nd place and was in good shape to take it down.

A couple of players tried really big bluffs on me and I picked em both off with marginal hands.My gut feelings were right both times.

As we got to 4 players,I was at like 28,000 chips and 2nd around 4000.I played big stack power poker and cleaned the rest out fairly quick.

The last hand I push with AQ when BB had 1/3 rd of their stack in and was commited to play or fold and lose anyway.They turned over Q3,I was in dominant position to win and my hand help up.

I will post later if I think of anything else to add.

I hope you guys enjoy these, and that they help you in thinking about the game.



Snow

You're making me cry as I finished 3rd being one of the players quickly banished to the rail

I forget what u called with but that 5k river bluff gift sure helped you get in dominating position with 4 to go. Props to you for realizing that I wanted to hold on to 2nd when I had like 4k larrdawg had 2500 and you had an insane lead like 20k. You showed down 26offsuit - still stings me - I folded tenjacksuited in the bb. Maybe you woulda busted me with your meager hand. Regardless, I didn't make 2nd anyway so I should have called. That other play when you were in bb with ten2off and the sb shoved for like 2.5 bb and you hero-called was awesome. I guess pot odds dictated that and some pct of the time tenhigh is ahead of their shoving range so good call.

This tourney would have been a different story if larrdawg's 2500 shove from the bb with his doggone hand of K9 didn't crack my AA with my bb at 200 with 11 left and then at the finalt I lost a big showdown with KK. Larrdawg ends up 2nd using my chips well. Lots of luck involved in these tourneys, but you have proven you got skills that outweigh luck.

This is great getting your perspective Joe,

Joe is pointing out a couple of plays I made on slim odds (more likely I lose the hand than win).
When I get a commanding lead at the final table,i look at my stack and the other stacks and calculate how many of the short stacks I can double up without material changing my chances of winning.I felt I could double 3 of the other players and still have plenty of chips to win.
I could gamble with the same person twice in a row and still have plenty of chips to win.
The bubble had just burst and everyone is cashing, and I figured someone would likely push into my Big Blind with blinds of 300/600 and a few hundred in antes.The player on the button opens all-in and the small blind folds.
I have 10-2 off which is at the lower end of my calling range but Im still ahead against 10-15 % of pushes and as long as they are not paired or have a 10 or 2. I am going to be around 30-35% and I needed to call like 4200 chips.Joe was right that it was a pretty sick pot odds call ,but my past experiance has been that when i get on a rush,ride it until it stops.I had cleaned out 5 people in a row,so I called and find out im 60%.My hand held up and put the other players on notice that there wont be any bluffing Snow today.

Thanks again Joe,its helpful to have the other players input like this!



Snow

Ok, would you say AK has a place, when would it be right to shove, or call an all-in?
I know what you mean, with the SnGs

With AK,I will shove all-in or call all-in when I am feeling pressure to win a Pot to stay alive in a MTT or sng.Any time that I am going to raise a pot and Im not going to fold to a reraise,then I shove with AK.Anytime my M is less than around 10-12 is an automatic shove.My reasoning is,Why let someone flop a set or other monster hand and then get the chips in after the fact.The only hands I don't want to see all-in pre-flop is AA or KK.Any other hands I am fine getting it in with AK.

I think a harder question to answer is, when do you lay down AK in an MTT.I have probably busted more times with AK than any other hand,and it is very difficult to get away from when you flop TPTK (Top Pair/Top Kicker).Knowing your opponant is definately helpful here.What is there range of hands that they raise with pre flop?If they are super tight and only raise pre-flop with AA KK QQ & AK,then you are way behind there range,and you can safely fold to there pre-flop raise.Yes I do fold AK pre-flop sometimes,but only to the tightest players or a big stack that I dont want to tangle with.

I busted in a MTT today with AK.1st position made a raise from 30 chips to 120 (He is a Reg and a good player),My stack was around 1100 and I decided (wrongly) to call and see a flop with my ak.If I don't hit the flop,I could fold and not change my chances of winning much.The flop came K73 w/2 clubs,I feel Im probably ahead most of the time here and want to get extra chips from initial raiser,so I check to him since he normally C-bets,He bet 160 and I call,hoping he puts me on a flush draw or a middle pair.The turn was a 2 (no club) and I check again to induce a bet.He abliges and bets out 280,so Im at a decision point.I either call here and let the last card come off or raise all-in.I decided that likely all the chips are going in by the river,so i reraised all-in in since I had determined I wasn't folding. I decided ,he could have the flush draw,a smaller kicker to a paired K or just be unwilling to back down from his aggression.
I decided to push my last 700 chips in the pot and he insta-calls and turns over a set of 3's.In hindsight I needed to make a big Pre-flop re-raise which I will do sometimes (When they turn over AA or KK,then you kick yourself for not just calling and seeing the flop.This example shows how tricky AK can be to play.

If I am doing really well in an MTT,I dont want to play a giant pot with another aggressive Big Stack,when i can pitch it and wait for a better opportunity.Picking your fights at the poker table in MTTs is an Art and losing your stack with AK will happen alot.


Snow

My two cents on that one. This is all based on pre-flop shoving unless I specify otherwise:

The power of A/K is that when you shove with it and get called you are still in decent shape against all but A/A and K/K.
When you shove with A/K, better hands (T/T or worse) often fold. So you have decent fold-equity.
Combining the fold equity with the decent chance of winning if you are called by a lower pair makes A/K a powerful semi-bluffing hand.

When you are a big stack and shove with A/K, really short stacks are apt to call with weaker Aces because they are desperate. However, big stacks are going to call with Q/Q, K/K, A/K, and A/A (maybe J/J). That's not a range you typically want to be all-in against.

The early stages of a tournament are about getting chips with minimal risk, and getting all-in with A/K pre-flop has substantial risk as there are a lot of big stacks that you do not want to get all-in against. There are even situations where you'll have to let go of it after flopping top-pair/top-kicker (like, in multi-player pots against 3-bets or check-raises). So basically, A/K is not a stacking hand unless you're up against a loose or especially short player.

If you are a short stack, you need to double-up so go ahead and shove with it to hopefully double up and get you some chips/power to work with.

Similarly, late in a tournament blinds are taking a larger bite into your stack. Greater peril to your stack due to blinds justifies greater risks to get chips. Also, you're looking to get a big stack to get that first place position. First place pays so much more than 3rd. So shoving with A/K is justifiable.

It should be noted that there is a big difference between open-shoving with A/K and 3-bet shoving with A/K. If you're short, again, it's worth risking your neck on the coin flip because you need chips. Besides, if they opened with A/J or A/K they might call anyway because they are priced in. But if you're up against a tight big stack mid-game who 3-bets you or 4-bets you, that's not a situation you want to be in.

- - -
Something to keep in mind: A lot of people misplay A/K and will call with it and fold if they miss the flop. They are going to get an Ace or King on the flop 32% of the time. 2/3 times they will miss and muck. So they're basically turning their coin-flip hand into a hand that will only pay off 1/3 of the time! Not only that, but when they do hit, the Ace and/or King on the board is often a scare cared so they may have trouble getting their opponents chips in.
Early in a tourney this isn't so bad. But when the blinds become significant (compared to stack sizes)... ick. Do not be one of those people. Don't do that to yourself.

[quote=SavagePenguin;1301275]

- - -
Something to keep in mind: A lot of people misplay A/K and will call with it and fold if they miss the flop.


I agree with this statement alot!Most times raise AK!

I am definately not auto folding the flop either!I may end of folding but i am likely to play after the flop to try to win the pot.

To me all plays are on the table at all times.I don't go into tourneys with any hard set rules to how I am going to play the game.I try to use all my options when i see fit.

In the above hand where i called early position raiser with AK,I had around 1000 chips with blinds of 15/30 and he made made it 120 to go.

I had several people behind me to act,so I risk raises and re-raises behind me and an initial raiser already in the pot.This is toward the worst of situations for AK. My feeling (gut) was to find out how many others wanted to play a really big pot before I commit my stack.If I re-raise here I have to win this hand. I would almost rather fold than put my chips in here.I still have plenty of chips to win the tourney and can find other situations I like better.

Alot of great info in Savage Penguins post!


Snow

As I wrote on your intital thread, I'm really impressed by your approach to MTTs. I've started a "snowbook" to study when I'm offline, which now includes excellent posts here by others too, like Joe's and SPs.

Great playing with you last night Snow, though of course we weren't in a mega tourney.

One quality I noticed in your play is that you are fearless, something I could definitely take some tips on. And that naturally leads to a larger question having to do with the psychology of playing. In my experience, being on my A-game has a lot to do with Attitude in addition to all the other factors. So--what sort, if any, of mental/emotional preparation do you bring to the tables? How do you sustain that energy throughout the duration of MTTs, which can sometimes last what feels like forever?

will come back and read this later, thanks Snow.

Yesterday, when I was talking smack with Maid Marian, I typed out something like, "If you want to beat me you can't be afraid to lose all your chips, because I won't be."

I went back and deleted it, but it fits what you just said.

It's the old "You have to be willing to die in order to live" cliche. A lot of new players don't want to seem foolish so they'll play too tight. They'll get a little farther in the game, but they don't make the big payouts.
Women tend to fall into this category more than men, whereas men are more prone to be too aggressive and shoot themselves in the foot.

A simple way to put it is that if you're in a $7.70 180 player tournament at the final table with 7 left. The number on the right is how much more you'll make by finishing in that place rather than in the previous place.
1 - $378 ~ $126
2 - $252 ~ $102
3 - $150 ~ $49
4 - $101 ~ $19
5 - $82 ~ $19
6 - $63 ~ $19
7 - $44

So with 7 left, everyone is guaranteed $44. Getting knocked out now gets you $0 more. Advancing one place only nets you $19. In fact, it's only $19 for the next three jumps.
But making 3rd is a big jump, and it's even bigger for 2nd, and bigger still for 1st.

Those big jumps are worth taking risks for. The payout outweighs the risk of busting out.

I'm not saying go kamikaze. I'm just saying, if I'm given the choice to fold my way to 4th place or take a coin flip that'll probably guarantee me 2nd (which means I have a good shot at 1st place as well) I'm taking that coin flip and shoving. And when I shove, I hope I'm doing it against someone who is fine with folding their way to 4th.

Great questions LarkMeadow,


Mental/emotional preparation:

Having enough sleep and not starting MTTs to late to be fresh at the final table.This is a major leak and bankroll killer if you do it!

I don't drink alcohol and play poker,My decisions are horrible past a couple of beers.

I keep a calander of the tourneys I intend to play,So for the most part I Have a schedule daily and start each day knowing most of when I will play that day.

I read poker books daily,post and study on CC daily,and think about poker when Im away from the game. (yes im obsessed)

I avoid playing Deep Stack tourneys online,My attention span for playing online is generally 5 hours without at least an hour break.



Your Image at the table:

Your image at the table, will determine in a lot of situations,how others will play you.Having people fearing getting involved with you at the table narrows the range of cards that they will play,thus making it easier to figure out where you are in a paticular situation.

Fearlessness and Foolishness are easily confused.
There is a big differance between someone having a read,and an advantage in a situation and making a strong play,vs unbridled Aggression.One looks like the other in the short term,but over the long term are easily distinguished.

Making great calls,and great laydowns are very important in MTTs,and are very hand specific.I intend to post some of these as I encounter them in tourneys.In general,having people respect/underestimate/fear your play is an advantage for you.

Example:I played a tourney recently and pushed 650 chips (all-in for Big Blind) into an unopened pot.My table image was very aggressive and I was called by kq,I turn over 2 6 off,and went on to win the pot.The very next hand,I raise a normal 3x and the Big Blind pushes a very nice sized stack in.I insta-call since Im sitting with AA and the current nutz.
I win the pot and the tourney.In the tourney chat the player put "I thought you were full of crap when you raised".I said "Thats the best part of showing down 6 2 off".They went on to say "I guess Ill never be good then".I chuckled because they are right in a sense that the 1 hand might not be the perfect play,But I had little risk in the 2 6 hand, and cleaned up with my powerful hand due to my image.This plays out in a variety of ways and I intend to post more examples as I can.



Snow

thanks to snowmobiler for sharing his valuable knowledge.
I wont be suprised if the "record of big wins!" thread becomes much more active after this

There's a great post by Shaun Deeb on two plus two on MTT strategies. It goes into detail on attitude per level and how many chips you should have per level to be competitive.

Great thread snow!!!

Lots of good information and tips.

Do you play more than one tourney at a time?

Great thread snow and some great points and reminders to all. It's easy to sit back and tell a bad beat about the crazy donk that cracked your KK with his bs 62 os hand but a whole 'nother thing altogether to sit back and think it through logically that the chip leader pushed into the ss, ran into a big hand and even if he had lost he could afford it and keeping the pressure up was the right thing to do.

Lot of people that still can not distinguish the difference and you've made great examples here differentiating between them.

Im going to expand the question a bit and give my history and general opinion about multi-tabling.

1st-If you are losing at 1 table,do not play more than 1 until you figure out a way to win consistantly.

My History regarding multi-tabling (MT) started almost from the beginning of my playing online poker,playing SNGs . As soon as I was playing 1 table I was figuring out how to play 2, and soon I was.I played 2 tables for about a year, and went to 4 for a while.Eventually I played as many as 18 or 20 (can't remember which) and eventually settled on 12 being my optimium amount I could play,to keep the highest win rate possible.

Through about 1.5 years,I averaged making about $1 per sng,playing 9 man $5.50,and this included bonus and FPPs (over half played on Poker stars)

The experiance I gained was very important to my improvement as a player.Once I felt like I wasnt getting better, it became boring and the profit wasn't worth it.I swapped to MTT and Became a Cardschat member within 6 months or so and have played MTTs since.

My strategy now is, the bigger the value of the tournament,the less tables I play.I will play up to 3 Cheap MTTs,but when 1st prize is over maybe $100 , and if there are not a ton of players,I will mostly play 1 or 2 now.


Snow

Thanks for posting some of your strategy/thought processes behind your success Snow. Good stuff, look forward to reading some more analysis of different situations that arise...if I happen to be at your table in a CC game, I'll make note of any interesting hands to ask you about.

Yea - good thread. Even though I helped you with starting it I just now had time to read it lol.

Should be some good on-going discussions here.

Great thread Snow

I appreciate your taking the time to give us some insights into your thought process. There's plenty of book knowledge out there for all of us to read & study on, but to get practical thoughts & ideas from someone you play with on a daily basis can only help to improve our games as well.

Keep up the good work

Thanks

I've been waiting for something like this, tried starting one earlier but it fell flat... think I was too whiney .

Anyway, this is great stuff Snow et. al., and your thoughts confirm a lot of my observations hanging in the shallow end of the MTT pool. I have been trying to find similarities in play among leaderboard toppers the past coupla years, here and elsewhere, and I think your comments reflect what top players exhibit (though they rarely discuss their strategies -- this thread in invaluable then).

I won't mention names but these playahs don't stay number one for more than a year usually; I think the grind gets to them (gotta play em all and more to top a leaderboard!) and someone else moves up...

That said, here are two points you make which are common among these leaders:

"Also getting lucky in MTTs always helps,and to win multiple tourneys in a row takes a little devine intervention imo.It also takes some risk on your part as you can't fold your way to a win."


I see a lot of early 'go big or go home' play among leaders, not being afraid to get in as underdog in the right circumstances (some you outlined above), in hopes of taking an early lead. Once consolidated, they can then sit back and play more selectively...


"If I am doing really well in an MTT,I dont want to play a giant pot with another aggressive Big Stack,when i can pitch it and wait for a better opportunity.Picking your fights at the poker table in MTTs is an Art and losing your stack with AK will happen alot."


Exactly, most of your posts are really about how to pick your spot for a big move. This is something I was missing but am getting it now -- have made the right moves recently, at the wrong time, and it cost me ITM or FT or top spot (getting tired or bored and making mistakes in late stages)... this is what I am working on now, and yr suggestion re SNGs was a great reminder, will get back to grinding those a bit, watching the stacks, places, payouts, and other factors, really an informal Independent Chip Model (ICM), which is another more rarefied (math-intensive) 'system' of its own.


Another note re image: MTTs at CC also play like cash games, in that you can always be back on the next bus if u bust (like a rebuy) and you get to know players over time as in a regular cash game. I took some big risks at the wrong time, but I know it left some people wondering, is this guy stupid or fearless? Or both? I will keep youse all posted on that he he he...


Good luck and cya at some more FTs!

great post snow lotsa of good advise for the novice and the experienced will help us all i am sure.

also want to add one thing when you are on a great run like snow is alot of things work well.

also when you are on a bad run nothing you do works well.

so dont get discouraged if you try these strategies and they dont always work the times they do will always pay for the times they dont.


biggest advise dont blind out or down so low you might as well be out.

again great post snow,

I'm heading out to my local riverboats for a few days and I'm going to take my "snowbook" along, mainly because I'll be playing in a freeroll or two where insanity generally reigns supreme . Live freerolls are pretty rare in these parts but when they happen people who have never been seen before suddenly appear. Though the max number of entrants is rarely more than 80, they actually feel like online mega MTTs to me. Hopefully, armed with a secret Snow weapon, I'll manage to cash .

Yesterday (Sunday),was a normal day. No, I didnt win any tournaments ,in fact I didnt even cash.

My 1st tourney of the day was to be the $400 OFC tourney we won,which I really look forward to.The only problem was I worked out in the yard and garage and missed almost the 1st hour,and come in to find out I had blinded down to 540 chips .I rarely miss a tourney I plan to play.

Ok,The situation i find myself in,540 chips and as soon as my table pulls up I see my Pocket Rockets fold,how disappointing.There was a day when I would have got upset,maybe just clicked off and said "fudgeget about it"
(yes Fudgeget is a word and no, its not in the dictionary)

This time I sat down and analyzed my position and prepared my strategy to get back into the game.I look the table over and there were 3 other sitters.Just the break I need to gain chips over the next few rounds and try to build my stack.

With blinds at 50/100, My M was 3.5 or so (desparate).When Im in this situation,I need to win 1 pot per round of blinds at a minimium.If I can maintain this until I hit a decent pot,then I can get back in the tourney.

Soon,everyone folds to me on the button and I have KJ diamonds and a sitter in the sb.KJ is not normally a hand I want to play all-in but givin my situation,it looked like a great spot to gamble.The BB calls and i win and have 950.A little breating room,but not much. My M is up to 6 (desparate still)

Within a few hands I get AK,and the table folds to my raise.Then I get pocket 6s and table folds to my raise.I now have 1450 chips (M of 9) but I look to the tourney lobby and blinds are going up in less than a minute.My M is shrinking again,back to around 6.

I pushed in with a hand I can't remember and lost a flip and was out (yes Im getting older and forgetful)

Short stack play,and not giving up are critical ingrediants to fighting your way back into a tourney.This one didnt work out in my favor but sometimes it will.

I then played 1 of My favorite tourneys,the sunday night FT $5.50 buy-in.I love the structure,and my wife plays which I enjoy.

My wife and I are seated next to each other,which is rare that we are at the same table.I had kinda thought that the software was keeping us apart,but maybe not.

Some players (that I consider friends) give us a hard time,about weather we are in the same room or sharing info.I assure you we play each other as hard or harder than we play others.Someone wanted us to send a picture of our computers in different rooms,And I said in the chat "get pifan to send pictures in,he is the one that got her chips".

I had worked my way up to around 4500 chips when the following hand happened.1st position who had played pretty solid raises from 200 to 600 with a stack of 8000 and it folds to me (near the button) and I look down to find pocket Jacks.If I call,Ill have 3900 chips and position throughout the hand, but most flops are going to look bad to me.I can fold and wait for a better spot but that isnt going to win alot of tourneys.I could reraise and put pressure back on him,since the money bubble was approaching soon and he might fold to perserve his cash that he likely has in the bank.

I Push,He tanks and eventually He called with KQ and the flop had 2 Qs,so I had 2 outs on the turn and river.He wins the pot and the tourney (Big Congrats)

Im hoping he will respond in this thread what was going through his mind and get his perspective on things.Im going to PM him and see if he wants to participate in this thread.If not no biggie.

I didnt really feel sharp and was a bit tired from my day working in the yard,so I saved my bankroll and just railed a few people for a while and called it a day.Down $5.50 for the day,had a lot of fun!

GL in your tourney Lark,and enjoy yourself!



Snow

yeah, i was at your table for this hand and my thoughts were this...

I figured that you had a decent stack and were not pushing with anything less than QQ+ and AK (i thought JJ was very bottom of your range there 2b honest) because you did not need to and must admit i was surprised with the call by villian.

Question? ... exact same situation and you look down and see QQ, KK, AA

Are you playing post -flop poker instead?

Where to begin????????? I too was in the $400 OFC freeroll yesterday. Had a fair stack. Got pocket jacks. Flop comes 9xx. I raise the pot. I think villain re-raised. (Memory problem). Turn comes up a blank. No straights, flushes, etc. in sight. Villain puts me all in. I expected at least a higher pocket pair and figured I would lose but took the chance. Imagine my surprise when he turned over A9. Thought I had it nailed. Of course an ace game up on the river (haha big surprise). My problem is not the ace on the river (well yes it is, but this is a constant), but how villain could go all in with a pair of nines when I either raised or called every bet. ALL IN WITH A PAIR OF NINES??????????????? What would you have done?

I vary my play at times,as I sit here and think about this question now,I think I would of:

AA- I think i make it 1600 to go.I want to commit him as much as I can, to doubling me up,and this raise seems about right to me.He would only have to put 3000 more chips in the pot post flop, and I think it might of been a tough fold with any kind of hand.I am definately putting my stack in post flop regardless.

KK- I really dont like giving a weak ace a chance to flop top pair,and would find it very tough to fold if I made the same raise as with aces.I more than likely shove and make him decide what to do.

QQ- This is my hardest choice of the 3,The most likely holding of initial raiser is AK (due to the amount of ways to make AK and the likelyhood someone raises from 1st position with it.If I call,and no ace/king comes,I can push after the flop.I also can push my stack in pre.The only thing Im not going to do is make the raise like I did with aces and give them a chance to out-flop me and have me commited to putting the rest of my chips anyway.Stack sizes,player image,blinds ect will make my decision.
I think my final decision would have been to push with the QQ but it is close.I really like to take a pot down post flop with an overpair to the board, and keep overcards from getting me on the turn or river.I think he lays down if no A/K flops but I thought he would of laid down KQ pre-flop to my all-in,so Im not even sure he folds post flop when he blanks.

JJ was the very bottom of my range here,correct.

Great question Ace!


Snow

Ok,you got unlucky,not the end of the world.These things happen.Shrug it off and go get them again.

As for the situation we are kind of light on facts so I am going to approach this from a general point of view.

Stack sizes and blinds are very important here and could cause me to go anywhere from fold to all-in.Pocket Jacks are tricky to play (maybe the trickiest hand).
When I raise with pkt Js (pre), and I get re-raised this is cause for great concern.If I have a nice stack and like my table I am going to let them go quite often (fold).I am usually no better than a flip here and often dominated.This really is a pot odds decision and game situation decision.

Hang in there and you will end up with the chips in that exact situation quite often!



Snow

OK. I understand the jacks thing and I was willing to take the chance obviously, but I guess my real question was would you have gone all in with a pair of nines on the turn?

I just dont have enough information regarding position, chip stacks,blind levels,raising ranges ect. to give a honest answer.As I said,I could fold,go all in,or bet something inbetween.

Thanks for your question,and I dont really think i can answer it any more thoroughly.



Snow

I don't remember all the details you need, but thank you for trying.

I was only kidding with you snow. To get this back on point of strategy: I also limp in with big pairs on occasion in the early levels. I noticed you did this and won a very nice pot to get to 3k real quick. However, you took it to another level because someone already limped in front, then you with QQ also limp, I think someone with AK raised it and it goes back to you headsup out of position and you called it. Smooth move

Tx Joe,

I remember the hand well,as the guy that pushed all his chips in after missing his straight draw on the river decided to berate me for my limp with QQ.I ask him to post here in a nice way,but he didnt yet.

I dont like limping Aces and rarely Kings.

Qs and any other pair,especially from an early position are a potential limp hand.I really like to see what action I get behind me and can weigh what to do when the action returns to me.In this case I had a couple of newbies and a couple of strong players right behind me and a couple of unknowns.The limper in front of me,I had determined that I could likely stack him.So I decided to disguise the strength of my hand.

The AK raises and it folds back to me.I think the blinds were 15/30 and he raised to 150 or so and I call .The flop was pretty good for me,all undercards to my pair so I check to the raiser and he makes a bet of 320 I believe, and I call.The board was J 10 3 rainbow i believe.I really felt that his turn action would tell me where he was at in the hand.I checked and he checked.I was sure I had the best hand and when a 2 came on the river,I was sure i had the winning hand.Now, How do I get the most out of him.I played the hand so weak I thought he could easily bluff the river since he C-bet the flop.Low and behold he shoves and I insta-call and double up.

I LOVE when they make a bad play and berate me in the chat,big LOL

I use this play to mix things up and not necessarily often.I like to raise my pairs pre-flop,but as always,I like to use the information at the table to my best advantage.

I really played this hand conservatively pre-flop,and maximised my winnings post flop with the least amount of risk as possible.
1 for the good guys!

Regarding teasing of me and my wife,there are several that do it and i take it in stride and as a joke.I assume if someone really thought we were doing anything against the rules,we would get reported.



Snow