Moving to 5NL, a couple of questions...

#1 1st December 2010, 1:26 PM

Hi everyone just a little advice needed.

I've played about 18k hands at 2NL at pokerstars and my bankroll is now up to $120 dollars so 24 buy ins seems reasonable to take a shot at 5NL.

- At 2NL i pretty much always played pocket pairs from any position and id say 80-90 percent of the time i raised also, i showed profit with all pocket pairs but my sample was only 18ki hands so im wondering what the best way to play pocket pairs is at 5NL?

-Also at 2NL my table selection was sorting by players seeing the flop and opening around 12 tables where it was over 30% and not paying too much attention to average pot but always choosing ones which werent really small... Quickly noticed whilst playing a little 5NL yesterday theres obviously less tables well over 30% seeing the flop, and those that are say 40% quickly fall to say 20% often (which at 2NL id quickly leave these tables to find some more 30+ ones) So im wondering the best way to choose my tables? obviously im looking for the loose players but should i still be staying in tables with %seeing flop in the 20's or should i be more inclined to look at the average pot size even if the percentage seeing the flop is low?

Thanks for reading any thoughts/advice will be muchly appreciated

forgot to mention that i am playing full ring.

#2 1st December 2010, 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acky100

Hi everyone just a little advice needed.

I've played about 18k hands at 2NL at pokerstars and my bankroll is now up to $120 dollars so 24 buy ins seems reasonable to take a shot at 5NL.

- At 2NL i pretty much always played pocket pairs from any position and id say 80-90 percent of the time i raised also, i showed profit with all pocket pairs but my sample was only 18ki hands so im wondering what the best way to play pocket pairs is at 5NL?

-Also at 2NL my table selection was sorting by players seeing the flop and opening around 12 tables where it was over 30% and not paying too much attention to average pot but always choosing ones which werent really small... Quickly noticed whilst playing a little 5NL yesterday theres obviously less tables well over 30% seeing the flop, and those that are say 40% quickly fall to say 20% often (which at 2NL id quickly leave these tables to find some more 30+ ones) So im wondering the best way to choose my tables? obviously im looking for the loose players but should i still be staying in tables with %seeing flop in the 20's or should i be more inclined to look at the average pot size even if the percentage seeing the flop is low?

Thanks for reading any thoughts/advice will be muchly appreciated

forgot to mention that i am playing full ring.

18k hands is a very small sample but you have BR to move up. Take a shot and if it doesn't work you can drop back down. (I played 75k hands of 2nl in November and have 97k hands overall @ 2nl.)

When 12 tabling @ 2nl (do you play on Full Tilt?) I look for pct of players to flop at 25%+ and average pot size of .40+. Variance can be a little high at these as there are lots of shovetards on those but overall it's profitable to play these.

Good Luck!

#3 1st December 2010, 7:18 PM

Nah i play at pokerstars i played at full tilt for ages but im finding pokerstars a lot better for games, plus i didnt get rakeback...

Anyways, should i be limping with pocket pairs OOP? only playing them in position or raising them all? or just certain ones?

#4 1st December 2010, 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acky100

Nah i play at pokerstars i played at full tilt for ages but im finding pokerstars a lot better for games, plus i didnt get rakeback...

Anyways, should i be limping with pocket pairs OOP? only playing them in position or raising them all? or just certain ones?

In all honesty it really dosent matter at 5NL. Id raise!

Playing small PP OOP isnt really a problem until people start 3betting the crap out of you.. which dosent begin until 25-50NL

#5 1st December 2010, 7:32 PM

Ah good i thought i may of been doing it far too much but yeah most of the time i dont get 3-betted, ill stick with it - Thanks

#6 1st December 2010, 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acky100

Ah good i thought i may of been doing it far too much but yeah most of the time i dont get 3-betted, ill stick with it - Thanks

Dont getme wrong its not "good" to play all PP from all positions, its just you wont get punished enough to make it so bad you must stop. That gets compounded with people calling too much postflop.

#7 1st December 2010, 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

In all honesty it really dosent matter at 5NL. Id raise!

Playing small PP OOP isnt really a problem until people start 3betting the crap out of you.. which dosent begin until 25-50NL

Stu,

Doesn't that contradict other comments you have made about playing sm/med pps OOP? Maybe you're making an exception for micros because of the low 3betting frequency?

If so, would you c-bet when you didn't flop a set? IF you do flop a set but the board is dry (no obvious draws) do you usually check/call the flop, bet the turn? That's pretty much the standard play in Micros when OOP and when IP it is call c-bet, bet/ raise turn.

#8 1st December 2010, 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fx20736

Stu,

Doesn't that contradict other comments you have made about playing sm/med pps OOP? Maybe you're making an exception for micros because of the low 3betting frequency?

If so, would you c-bet when you didn't flop a set? IF you do flop a set but the board is dry (no obvious draws) do you usually check/call the flop, bet the turn? That's pretty much the standard play in Micros when OOP and when IP it is call c-bet, bet/ raise turn.

Its one of those things, where its bad form to do it. But because people are playing the 2 cards infront of them it dosent really matter.

You could fold Postflop all but the nuts and still expect callers when you get it.

As you go higher, the two things that become a problem are

1. People 3 bet more meaning you dont get to see as many flops.
2. People notice what you do Postflop more. So if you fold all but the nuts PF dont expect callers. If you try and run C-bet bluffs with too widde a range, people will notice that too and start raising your c-bets more liberallly.

You arent really playing poker when you play all PP, you are simply popping in a bit of money and hoping to hit the jackpot..and if you do likely to be up against someone dumb enough to pay you off.

#9 1st December 2010, 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Its one of those things, where its bad form to do it. But because people are playing the 2 cards infront of them it dosent really matter.

You could fold Postflop all but the nuts and still expect callers when you get it.

As you go higher, the two things that become a problem are

1. People 3 bet more meaning you dont get to see as many flops.
2. People notice what you do Postflop more. So if you fold all but the nuts PF dont expect callers. If you try and run C-bet bluffs with too widde a range, people will notice that too and start raising your c-bets more liberallly.

You arent really playing poker when you play all PP, you are simply popping in a bit of money and hoping to hit the jackpot..and if you do likely to be up against someone dumb enough to pay you off.

I agree completely. Since most players lose money from SB,BB, UTG & UTG+1 why play from those positions at all? Obviously you can't fold AA or KK but if most players filtered their pocket pairs by position they'd probably find that they are losing with most of them. As I've mentioned numerous times my default opening pocket pairs from UTG & UTG+1 is TT+. I have been tempted to tighten that even further to JJ+ but haven't done so yet. I also feel that if you only opened Premiums with a big raise and everyone folded you win. You'll more than make up for it when you are IP.

#10 1st December 2010, 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fx20736

I agree completely. Since most players lose money from SB,BB, UTG & UTG+1 why play from those positions at all? Obviously you can't fold AA or KK but if most players filtered their pocket pairs by position they'd probably find that they are losing with most of them. As I've mentioned numerous times my default opening pocket pairs from UTG & UTG+1 is TT+. I have been tempted to tighten that even further to JJ+ but haven't done so yet. I also feel that if you only opened Premiums with a big raise and everyone folded you win. You'll more than make up for it when you are IP.

Definately..

I wouldnt go as far as they are "loosing from there positions with all PP"

They probably show a profit, BUT whats likely happening is this small profit is born out of a few pots where they hit sets and villians refused to fold some funky hand.

However what you should see is that all PP show a higher profit IP than OOP (in a HU pot) and that the small PP show a slight profit / loss where as the bigger pairs show a larger profit.

So by playing PP more IP and playing fewer small PP OOP your winrate should go up.

As you go up stakes where people dont pay off as much, the small profit shown by small PP turns into a bigger loss.

So I am certainly not saying you should be playing small PP oop.. just that you will not be punished enough at micros.

#11 2nd December 2010, 11:55 AM

no much difference betweem Nl2 to NL5

#12 4th December 2010, 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerstud777

no much difference betweem Nl2 to NL5

I've heard spelling and grammar improves.

#13 4th December 2010, 10:44 PM

id just use the same method your using in 2nl in 5nl and see how it goes not much difference still tonnes of fish they just have more money to giv you!

#14 8th December 2010, 2:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Its one of those things, where its bad form to do it. But because people are playing the 2 cards infront of them it dosent really matter.

You could fold Postflop all but the nuts and still expect callers when you get it.

As you go higher, the two things that become a problem are

1. People 3 bet more meaning you dont get to see as many flops.
2. People notice what you do Postflop more. So if you fold all but the nuts PF dont expect callers. If you try and run C-bet bluffs with too widde a range, people will notice that too and start raising your c-bets more liberallly.

You arent really playing poker when you play all PP, you are simply popping in a bit of money and hoping to hit the jackpot..and if you do likely to be up against someone dumb enough to pay you off.

this was good information.

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