Monster Draw

#1 2nd August 2009, 6:41 AM

Should I bet this? If I had monster draw? Or should I even reraise with this kind of hand?

#2 2nd August 2009, 6:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinpe

Should I bet this? If I had monster draw? Or should I even reraise with this kind of hand?

'What?' kind of hand - lol ....

#3 2nd August 2009, 7:18 AM

lol i also am confused, do you mean a royal flush draw str flush or a normal str flush or full house??

In my experience it is better NOT to bet your monster draw because if you don't hit, and chances are you won't either because someone has your card, or it doesn't show, you will lose the pot. If you don't bet you can still be drawing for a flush as well, say if you are going for a royal. Could you please better explain the situation?

#4 2nd August 2009, 10:29 AM

For example I have OESD + Nut flush draw. Something like this. Is it good to bet when you're in a situation like this one?

#5 2nd August 2009, 11:39 AM

It depends. with a monster draw on the flop, you typically have about 50% equity in the pot versus more or less any legitimate hand villain(s) has(have).

If you're heads up on the flop, you should play this as aggressively as possible in order to add fold equity to your pot equity when called and therefore profit.

If you're largely multiway, it's often worth it to play more passively as you still have about 50% pot equity regardless of the number of people in the hand, but you only contribute a much smaller fraction to the pot.

And of course, these are only general guidelines.

#6 2nd August 2009, 11:41 AM

Go watch, the 250 play cash tables, at Fulltilt. There are nuts pushing all-in on suited cards, even when there on a flush draw.
It is the same in 2NL, and 10NL, and even the same in small buy-in MTTs.
If you hope to win a lot of pots, on a draw you are crazy.
Your odds on a flush are 1 in 6.
I hate to put it so brunt, but i have lost a lot chasing draws, more then i have won. If you have a loose player, betting on a draw will only cost you, he will call you with low pair.
If your on trips, i say it is ok, but watch out for the calling stations, as long as you see no draws, you should be OK.
I will say this i have won more on two pair, then i have one pair, anytime i go for a str8, or flush i get kicked down on it.
I hope that sums it up for you.

#7 2nd August 2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidkvno1

Go watch, the 250 play cash tables, at Fulltilt. There are nuts pushing all-in on suited cards, even when there on a flush draw.
It is the same in 2NL, and 10NL, and even the same in small buy-in MTTs.
If you hope to win a lot of pots, on a draw you are crazy.
Your odds on a flush are 1 in 6.
I hate to put it so brunt, but i have lost a lot chasing draws, more then i have won. If you have a loose player, betting on a draw will only cost you, he will call you with low pair.
If your on trips, i say it is ok, but watch out for the calling stations, as long as you see no draws, you should be OK.
I will say this i have won more on two pair, then i have one pair, anytime i go for a str8, or flush i get kicked down on it.
I hope that sums it up for you.

This post is so dumb...

#8 2nd August 2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse

This post is so dumb...

This is a wise man. He should be listened to

#9 2nd August 2009, 5:36 PM

I would definately bet or reraise with this draw on the flop.....if i get pushed on i would call depending on how much it is to call

#10 2nd August 2009, 6:45 PM

I think that you should definately call here but a reraise I would not suggest because even if you have a monster draw you still have a great percentage to totally miss it and then what? you are pot committed and if you cant run your opponet out you have lost with a good fortune of your bankroll with it

#11 2nd August 2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse

It depends. with a monster draw on the flop, you typically have about 50% equity in the pot versus more or less any legitimate hand villain(s) has(have).

If you're heads up on the flop, you should play this as aggressively as possible in order to add fold equity to your pot equity when called and therefore profit.

If you're largely multiway, it's often worth it to play more passively as you still have about 50% pot equity regardless of the number of people in the hand, but you only contribute a much smaller fraction to the pot.

And of course, these are only general guidelines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse

This post is so dumb...

For as many times i have gone for a flush, i have missed haft the time, it has cost me, big time.
But i guess not as much as i thought, I looked at PT3 stats.

well then i can only say make sure your going for an ace high flush...
also you should only do so when your in position.
P.S I have tried an all-in and to only have been called, only to be knocked out of a game

#12 2nd August 2009, 10:35 PM

There is never a situation in poker that something is as concrete as anyone makes it.

If you have a flush draw, you're on the CO, and you have 2 other players ahead of you, it makes sense to bet if it goes check check to you.

if you NEVER bet your draws you'll lose a lot of money. Even a flush draw you have some equity in the pot BIG draws like top pair nut flush draw, Open ended straight flush draws... inside straight flush draws (unless you're drawing to the one card) you're losing a lot of money when it goes check check bet fold fold.

Whereas, if they have bottom pair and it goes check check check, blank check check check blank. even if they call the flop and you miss your draw, they can fold their bottom pair to a bet on the flop and a bet on the turn.

#13 2nd August 2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styrofoam

There is never a situation in poker that something is as concrete as anyone makes it.

If you have a flush draw, you're on the CO, and you have 2 other players ahead of you, it makes sense to bet if it goes check check to you.

if you NEVER bet your draws you'll lose a lot of money. Even a flush draw you have some equity in the pot BIG draws like top pair nut flush draw, Open ended straight flush draws... inside straight flush draws (unless you're drawing to the one card) you're losing a lot of money when it goes check check bet fold fold.

Whereas, if they have bottom pair and it goes check check check, blank check check check blank. even if they call the flop and you miss your draw, they can fold their bottom pair to a bet on the flop and a bet on the turn.

^^^^^^ point i was trying to make.

#14 5th August 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krish2000

I caught a midnight screening of the movie and I believe the monsters are Aliens. Here's why:

First, when the 'earthquake' hits, and the monster/alien arrives-- I believe its the crash landing. The monster was quite large, however, to create that kind of impact it had to be from a great fall. What really brought that home for me is when we get a chopper view of the statute of liberty and there is a giant hole nearby... perhaps where the aliens crash landed.

Additionally, when the lil ones attack the group in the tunnels, the hilarious camera man (who made the movie for me) asserts that they were trying to pull him away, commenting "what was that about?" Yet, the lil monsters/aliens did not try to drag the Marlena away--instead one tried to eat her. This illustrated to me the difference between those they tried to abduct and consume. They could have just as easily bit the cameraman.

Also, the way that the bites affected people. The lil ones were carriers of some alien infection. The reaction of the military to the discovery that one of the group had been bitten said it all. The blood ran down her eyes, and it appeared to me when they brought her into quarantine that her head exploded. This virus is not some earthly S*#@!

Finally, the actual look of the Large monster. It does not appear to be a mutation of anything that appears in nature. No, it does not look like a whale. No, it does not look like a squid. Its core and head are almost humanoid when it stands erect, with long bat-like arms (tho wingless) and traditional alien skin. Also, the final view that we get shows red sacs flapping as it stares into the camera before its final kill, and to me it looks alot like the infrared vision that the aliens in Tremors use. Now that I think of it... this monster could be an ultimate mutation of the monsters in Tremors!!! lol okay now I'm going a bit too far, nonetheless, these creatures, as they exist in my mind, are aliens.

... what?! (the hell does this have to do with this post [or forum] at all?) Is it some sort of weird forum software that creates a random post based off of snippets of random information based on the title of the thread (in this case a monster draw?) In any case, made me laugh.

And as for the original question, I agree with everyone who says that whether or not you bet your draw will depend on the number and play of your opponents, and your position. Are you first to act, or did everyone already check? Do the other players likely have a hand already or perhaps a better draw than yours? Will they suspect you are on a draw and/or try to defend their made hand by re-raising you? Are they passive players who like to check down? Will they pay you off more if you hit if you bet into them since they will suspect a made hand and not the draw? Are you playing a cash game and can potentially take the villain's stack? Are you in a tourney hoping to double up or at the final table?

All of these questions will affect whether or not betting into a draw is profitable. Perhaps if you post a hand history (or two) we can be more helpful.

Best of luck, T.

#15 6th August 2009, 1:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tublecain

... what?! (the hell does this have to do with this post [or forum] at all?) Is it some sort of weird forum software that creates a random post based off of snippets of random information based on the title of the thread (in this case a monster draw?) In any case, made me laugh.

And as for the original question, I agree with everyone who says that whether or not you bet your draw will depend on the number and play of your opponents, and your position. Are you first to act, or did everyone already check? Do the other players likely have a hand already or perhaps a better draw than yours? Will they suspect you are on a draw and/or try to defend their made hand by re-raising you? Are they passive players who like to check down? Will they pay you off more if you hit if you bet into them since they will suspect a made hand and not the draw? Are you playing a cash game and can potentially take the villain's stack? Are you in a tourney hoping to double up or at the final table?

All of these questions will affect whether or not betting into a draw is profitable. Perhaps if you post a hand history (or two) we can be more helpful.

Best of luck, T.

lol what movie is he describing

#16 6th August 2009, 1:46 AM

There is no set answer here.
It depends on so many factors, position, stack size, the other players, pot size, etc.etc.

Sometimes the answer is yes you should call, or raise, or check and maybe even fold.

This is a situation every poker player has gone through and every time it can be different.

Sorry if I sound vague but that's the way it is

#17 6th August 2009, 1:55 AM

you never gave the hand... i usually get really mad though when i have a flush or something i think i have one with, and then i lose to a full house because somebody has pockets.. and there is a pair on the board.

#18 6th August 2009, 2:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tublecain

... what?! (the hell does this have to do with this post [or forum] at all?) Is it some sort of weird forum software that creates a random post based off of snippets of random information based on the title of the thread (in this case a monster draw?) In any case, made me laugh.

Woah, slow your role pedro!!!

#19 6th August 2009, 2:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggaLos

Woah, slow your role pedro!!!

I have no idea what this means. But it also made me laugh.

P.S. How did you know that my name (and that of my 8 brothers, my friends and indeed all my fellow sombrero wearing, nap taking, taco eating, skillfully dancing Mexican compatriots) is Pedro? So, you think you're on to us eh...? but I read your book you magnificent b@$7@rd!

#20 6th August 2009, 2:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tublecain

I have no idea what this means. But it also made me laugh.

P.S. How did you know that my name (and that of my 8 brothers, my friends and indeed all my fellow sombrero wearing, nap taking, taco eating, skillfully dancing Mexican compatriots) is Pedro? So, you think you're on to us eh...? but I read your book you magnificent b@$7@rd!

LOL

#21 7th August 2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtrigemino

The first one what kind of hand, obviously if u had a monster draw play hard In the flop like a made hand, well see on the turn if somebody calls, still betting. Depends how many callers you have

found that out the past week.

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