min raise with aces

Why do people min raise with aces? No logic in pricing someone in to suckout on you.

As the old saying goes; there is no wrong way to play Aces.
Betting the minimum (while NOT my fave play!) draws more players into the pot and while it may prove tougher to take the pot, there is quite often more cash in there for the nut hand. As you say, if you allow more callers, you can get sucked out. But in a decent game (NOT a freeroll) you can more often than not shove and steal once the pot gets juicy enough. (depending, I guess, on your table image).
I personally believe you should get as much in the pot as possible pre-flop with Aces. If that means making it a little cheaper to attract action, so be it, but often there will be at least one soft/aggressive player at the table to extract some decent chips from with a higher raise. And if you think you may get action with an all-in, even better.

There certainly are wrong ways to play aces.
Min raising is certainly among the worst of them.

There's no way we would ever want lots of people in the pot with AA. We never want to have to plan on needing are aces to improve because its very rare we'll get action with them when we do.

I wasn't defending min raises with Aces, If you read my post, I said you need to bet as much possible, providing you think you'll get paid off.
The bigger the raise, the less players and the higher our odds are. But there is ZERO point in raising 3x BB if your at a table full of rocks who wont even consider giving you expensive action.
On occassion you need to bet low and suck a few extra players in to the pot. Ok, limping in with Aces, and flat calling Aces is pretty bad play, but its SOMETIMES necessary to get paid.
Table image comes in to play too. If you've been playing way too tight, a huge bet out of the blue is gonna set alarm bells ringing.
So yes, there are a hundred ways to play Aces, and they all (at different stages and situations) have their place.

As I said, bet as much as you can get paid for, however high or low.


Dont mean any offence Deco, but its a bit ignorant to contest that you MAY need to bet lower to draw action now and again. And you are assuming a nut flush/straight draw, or a board that makes someones two pair or trips that would mean aces have to 'recover'.
We'd still be ahead with top pair on an awful lot of boards remember. I understand where your coming from though.
GG guys

Min raising with Aces when deepstacked is a mistake. There is some validity to minraise them shortstacked because people aren't getting the correct implied odds to call. However, this is assuming they wouldn't call a larger raise and they are loose enough to call more bets post flop.

To answer OP's question, my guess would be that it is because they want some action (they're tired of everyone folding whenever they get AA). However, it is usually a mistake to do so.

Thats the angle I was going for. lol. Still very rarely the right play though.

Hi all,
Well I think it all depends on your position and stack size.If you are in early position then you should limp in ,late position watch what size bets come from the table.

I would much rather bet 3xBB with AA and have everyone fold than minraise it and have all sorts of shite drawing to beat me. I'm either gunna win a small or or lose a big one.

I disagree.


yet a minraise out of the blue won't startle them?


Don't get me wrong I may 3bet to only 2/3 the pot or make a smaller 4bet in the hope they'll shove.
Coldcalling and limping Aces is next to never a good play to make.

Sometimes people hold rags and they fold, get over it!
We cant get paid off everytime we get aces, if we start limping and coldcalling with them we will get action more often but were also gunna get beat alot as well.

Also how are we going to balance min-raising with aces?
Are we going to do it with all our other hands as well?

no because its not obvious when we raise 3x with every hand except aa, which we minraise!

[x] some ppl will never understand
[ ] Completely serious post

Personally, I like to play aces against as few opponents as possible. I dont want to invite opponents with hands like 22's 33's etc to only for them to make a set.

However, when a min raise or limp is made with aces, the other players wont suspect you to have aces and this could work in your favor. Of course if you've gone to showdown after limping aces this is not the best idea.

it depends on my position

Earlier on, 3BB raise with AA, later on, you should be raising 2.4 - 2.8 BB. All your raises should be the same, and later on it is better to raise to 2.4 - 2.8 because the same people will fold and you risk less.

min raising with AA pretty much announces to the table you have a really big hand if that isn't your standard size raise from that position. I would consider minraising from one of the blinds if it was a blind vs blind hand. it might look like a cheap steal attempt and you might get action. otherwise I would make a standard raise or possibly limp ocasionally in early position with AA if there were aggressive players behind.

Yesterday I was playing in the US Freeroll and got pockets Aces 4 times. Each time I made a 3x BB raise and each time everyone folded to me. Even when I had been real aggressive for a few hands in a row, and then got em everybody folded. But there was no way I was going to limp with them in that.

Sometimes in a SnG, if Im UTG or in EP with really aggressive players or a short stack behind me I might limp. This is just because Im hoping for someone to raise me, so I can reraise them back. Usually will only do that tho if I have a decent sized stack. Hmm, well actually might do it as a short stack also hoping for an aggressive big stack to push me in. Both of which have happened and worked well, usually its down to HU which is what you want if your allin with Aces.

i must say depending on the play style of my opponents i may want to keep as many in as i can and up the pot on the flop making it look like i want to take it. I'll usually raise it up about 4X BB when i have the rockets which usually gets out all the sucker hands and suited connectors and only leaves bigger cards, or cards including aces. This allows me to let an opponent catch a high card and start making stabs at the pot, as long as i don't c a big flush draw or str8 on the board, i can sucker them into a big pot and taking them out, sometimes u do get hit hard wit a flush or str8, but at least it's not suckered out by lower card flushes and str8's, only the big hands would b able to sucker u out.

I'm assuming you are talkin' about 'pre-flop'. I have never mini-raised pre-flop ever, it's stupid .

There are plenty of situations AFTER THE FLOP (post-flop) to mini-raise w/ pkt aces. BEFORE THE FLOP (pre-flop), any1 who mini-raises (no matter what their hand is) needs to get their head examined being it's just plain stupid IMO

Thankyou. Preflop min raise is lamest of the lame.

its been happening so much in mtts lately its almost so obv, and its never a bluff unless the blinds are redic high. But if not said already it induces frustration especially at higher levels and gets more people or money in plus can sometimes get players commited enough to call another reraise by the min raiser or allin.

I don't like people playing monster hands awkwardly, it's generally imo not a winning play and you need a good reason (very loose/aggressive table) etc. to do it, I normally preflop whatever my hand just make the standard raise, and don't stray away from that, ok you may have a fold round but then that's just tough (full ring), but you have to deal with that, keep to the standard raise you bring in AQ/AK worse if there are fish, pairs, if your lucky you'll get more than one call, and weaker hands like s/c's might worm their way in.

Standard raise pre flop is the way, if your going to be awkward, leave that till post flop, and depending on your opponent and the board then find the best way to extract the most from the hand.

Min raise doesn't qualify your opponents holdings very well as many will call with marginal drawing hands and once a few get in the pot just about anybody is going to think about calling. Better to push everyone out of the hand with a 3BB bet hoping for a stronger hand to call than have a few small PPs calling. If they hit their set your going to be paying off much more than you might gain by letting the pot build. After all, if you get a caller to your 3BB bet there will be almost as much in the pot as if 3 players called a min-raise.

I usually watch AA either bet on hard, or slow played to the max. I personally don't enjoy slow playing them, because I have been beaten when I have done this.

A min raise with aces, is not right to do.... If you play in limit, you need to raise with aces, keep en eye out for draws.....
However there is a time to min raise with aces, it all depends on how the table is...

Thats the action you are looking for. One opponent you are ahead of, versus 3 opponents fishing on a min bet.

Good point, Tek

I really don't like the idea of min-raising with Aces, but I do believe there is a time where any play is plausible. That is the beauty of the poker universe.

I think some people before me pointed out some situations where it may be a good idea. If the table is really tight, you might not get called at all. Also, if your image is really tight, and you make a big raise, you might not get called at all. In the long run though, min-raising on Aces is a losing play IMO. You're not getting the max value for the value of your cards. But the play is plausible, despite its situational strength.

i completely agree with what u just said...and i may add for cash games u should try to bring in the pot as much money as u think u will get paid off....slow play means waste of money,it is an open invitation to all players with marginal drawing hands(u should want only 1 or 2 callers ).....omg it's like u want your AA to be crack

Yes, you want to maximize the value of your hand by gettin' as much out of them as possible.

TBH, most of the time when I see pkt aces get cracked is when some1 has raised wrong from the get go & this is what the thread is basically about (learning NOT to mini-raise pre-flop, not only w/ pkt aces, but ALL hands you decide to raise w/.)

Well, the reason that a lot of people do it is because they don't realize the value of isolating with your aces, so they think that it is better to get a lot of callers.

That being said, there is a reason to do it every now and then. Since a lot of people will min raise from late position to try to make a cheap steal, it could prove prudent to min raise from the CO, button, or even SB if it's folded to you if you have a BB who is very resistant to steals. Baiting the BB into a resteal attempt can be very profitable, especially if you play them correctly after the reraise by the button.

Min Raising with aces is def something u should not do, unless its folded to u and ur in the sb and u just wnat a bit extra from hte bb. With aces you want to isolate preflop, if u raise early position to 3.5 or 4X BB and get like 5 callers so be it, but if u can narrow the field with ur aces i suggest u do so. Limpining in early position to reraise later is risky and only works if u know someone will raise at the table. Heads up aces win 80% of the time, with 2 other opponents the number shrinks to i think 55% and then when their are 3 other hands its as low as 35-45ish. So the less hands hte better.

never.....never.....never ever...min raise with aces......

normally ill raise it 6 - 7 BB that way im only taking the blinds or only getting 1 caller...i dont want to be involved in any sort of multi way pot.

I rather raise to my standard 3.5 to 5X BB in a cash game with aces everytime and get no callers than to min raise and get my whole stack involved. stealing the blinds is an ok result, still positive EV.

i've gotten to where i raise ~4BB with AA. its a cursed hand if you don't wipe out the competition. i figure if everyone drops out you've still got your little win, which, late in a tourney can seem like a godsend to me anyway. after all, they're just a pair. there's gonna be 5 cards laying out on that table pretty soon...plus the two that everyone else has all ready...if you dont hit, it could bring a tear to your eye.

today i was in the BB, i had a 59. a few ppl limp in. in the flop...a 5 and a 9 show up. shoot, i lay out about half the pot. everybody folds with exception to one guy. the turn drops down...its nothing. i shove down half the pot again, he raises, so i shoved...he calls...oh...there's his pocket rockets...the river was nothing, and he was pretty much done for the day after that. had he raised preflop, i would have been gone, my 59 wasn't suited, it wasn't much of anything to me....till i got to see the flop. i don't think i've ever min-raised in my life either...i may be tight but its usually go hard or go home when i hit, depending on my stack

i generally raise according to position and not according to cards...so if i get AA in early position, i will min raise...and if reraised...make a strong stand and try and isolate

gl to you
wooter

well, i've learnt to be very suspicious of min raises UTG because of this exact play!

One stupid thing which has happened to others who did not raise AA preflop... when I was BB and i hit 2 pair on the flop, I checked to him and he passed, turn came a K, i shoved all in and he called.

So I guess he was thinking I was sneaky.. but in the end, it cost him his tourney life.

Maybe.. such plays are +ve in the long run? Some seem to think so.. "it happens" they say... I don't think so... there's always that risk you may face more than 2 other players if you limp/min-raise with AA..

I guess the min-raiser hopes that someone else would re-raise and you'll be able to isolate one...good plan but it can backfire. Knowing when to fold AA... if things don't go to plan, is another thing!