Mid pocket pair in the middle of a tourney

#1 7th September 2008, 7:57 PM

I think I'm having some issues playing these mid pocket pairs in the midpoints of tourneys. I tend to call up to 4xbb with them (if my stack is more than 20bb), kinda hoping to catch a set (i know it's not great strategy but for some reason I can't get away from them. I really only raise with them in late position (in the midpoint of tourneys, SnG's etc.). Is that too much.

Lately I've been losing my objectivity. I need some cold hard facts to wake me up. Maybe even an intervention!!

Anyway lay some knowledge on me!!

#2 7th September 2008, 9:51 PM

u asked for the facts.

Fact #1: 1:8 times u will make your set ON THE FLOP.

"Set Mining"- based on the odds of flopping a set. (12.5%) converted to fractional is 1/8 times you will flop your set.

soooo... heres an example of when you should call with a pp,

ok say its 9 handed. blinds 25/50 and everyone has 2000 chips.
you are in the BB with 44 actions folds to the button, who raises 5x the bb(250), sb folds, you...?
Call. you have 8x250 in your stack, same as your opponent, and therefore are getting the correct odds to make this call.

ok so lets say you dont make your set and fold.
the next time in your bb you pick up 66. again action folds around to the button, who makes the same 5xbb raise, you...?

you are down the 250 chips from last hand+ the 25 small blind=275
now in the bb again 50 more chips in the pot=325
2000-325=1675 (1725 including the 50 for your bb)

facing the same 5x raise...

now with your stack you are only getting odds to call 215 chips and set mine this time. since it is only 200 chips to call again you are getting that 8:1 to make the call.

you dont want to always just assume that calling the 4xbb bet preflop is the correct play

basically 1:8 (12.5%) is the magic number
your stack should be 8x the bet you are calling at least.
your opponents stack should also be 8x the bet.

hope this kinda helps u realize which situations u should and shouldnt be playing pp's in. gl.

#3 7th September 2008, 10:49 PM

So you're basing all of the calls strictly on pot odds.... makes sense. The problems i get into have to do with the style of play of the opponent (ie aggressive, which i might call even if the pot odds are not so much in my favour).

Thanks for the info, i really do think that I become a little bit of a calling station in those situations, concentrating on the pot odds will hopefully settle me down!

#4 8th September 2008, 5:35 AM

Dias,

Don't only look at pot odds, the 1:8 of hitting a set. Mid-pairs have added value if you are first to raise, in position, against short stacks, etc. Your comment that your "hoping to catch a set" means you are most probably surrendering the hand if you don't catch.

And if your talking 20bb, you are probably better off folding or going over the top rather than trying to hit a set against a 4xbb raise.

#5 8th September 2008, 7:40 AM

don't simply look at the pot odds, the situation is important. If you're playing a mid pair, look around and see which players are in the hand. Aggressive players are dangerous, as they may hit a higher pair than you, but if you're playing against tight players, and a flop lower <9 comes out, push, and you may steal the blinds. Even if someone chases, the odds are in your favour.

#6 10th September 2008, 11:41 PM

i would say that mid position in the middle of tournaments with 1010 and lower i would just limp and don't call any raise that is 3 more than what you already limped for. you will only hit a set on the flop i think 12% so it is not very high. better to fold if you are at an aggressive table.

#7 11th September 2008, 7:24 AM

imo, in the middle of a tourny, the stacks get much smaller in relation to the blinds so trying to set mine isnt profitable. you have to take into the account that a. you hit your set, b. you stack your opponent, and c. when you call preflop a short stack wont shove and you have to donate a huge chunk of your stack. with pps you should be raising late position to take blinds or shoving when you're short.

#8 12th September 2008, 2:49 AM

I agree with this some what. I hate pushing with 22-77. i would rather go with 910 or even 45suited. just my opinion

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