Originally Posted by Cafeman31

These days I just start new ones or join ones with seats spare that don't have too many regs on them. After a few orbits I decide to stay or leave, and then keep an eye on things going forward. It only takes a couple of weaker players to leave and regs to take their seat to make moving +EV.

Shit to hear about your downswing. Sounds like you've had a bad run tbh.

Yeah I saw u and acky saying this in dlam's thread. I'm going to give it a go. I have noticed that when a table completely breaks up and I get left there on my own it doesn't take long for a fish to sit down.

Downswing was pretty bad, at least I know I can thrash 2NL so I won't ever need to deposit again! Hopefully 5NL will start going better now.

Doing a bit better recently, bankroll back up to $250 and I'm thrashing 2NL right now, which I'm going to play mainly at off-peak times, and play 5NL at peak times.

Played ~10K hands of 2NL recently, and I'm beating it at 8.39BB/100. Hopefully I can go over 10BB/100 in the next 10K hands...will post my graph at 20K hands.

2NLwinrate2012.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41836&d=1327315324)

So what do you think you're doing differently at 2NL compared to 10/25? This is 6max right?

Originally Posted by Cafeman31

So what do you think you're doing differently at 2NL compared to 10/25? This is 6max right?

Yes all 6max.

I think its just WAY easier at 2NL due the sheer number of fish. I found the increased aggression at 25NL quite difficult to adjust to and I ended up making stupid plays.

Some would say different, but I think I wasn't properly rolled for 25NL when I tried (I had $500 roll) so losing a few buy-ins seemed like a lot and I think that affected my play.

idk why but I find 5NL 6max a real bitch...I found 10NL easier

just table select better, 2 and 5 shouldnt be much different

Bankroll back to $500 after the downswing.

Been playing mostly 10NL, some 5 and 2.

BIG recent revelation has been opening a LOT from the CO and BTN, see stats for last 25K hands below. Before only my VPIP would increase in later positions because I called more from there with SCs and PPs but my PFR was pretty even in all seats. Now my PFR also increases in later positions allowing me to steal more blinds and play more hands in position.

Things I still need to work on...
-tighten up a bit UTG
-tighten up a in SB
-3bet more often (include more 3bet bluffs)
-loosen up a bit in CO

Any comments on these stat appreciated, cheers

Feb25KhandsSTATSmod2.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42109&d=1329131608)

Your 3bet on the BTN is real real real low.Thats way tighter than my 4bet range.Would like to see your raise limpers,and your squeeze %

Just moved to 6m myself so probs wait for better comments, but....

Still think you can open up more in the CO there, 3b should be bigger imo, def from the BTN, exploit the TAG's in the CO by 3betting the shit out of them, hopefully they then adjust badly just when you 3bet the goods. You should be 3betting more from the Btn than in the blinds right?? As we have position post flop and can play worse hands a lot easier??

Yeah NEED TO 3BET MORE!

Can't find raise limpers stat, but in almost all cases I do raise rather than also limping myself.

Squeeze% is BTN 3.8, SB 1.5, BB 2.8, overall 2.4.
Pretty low right? ... as my 3bet is so low.

Originally Posted by orangepeeleo

You should be 3betting more from the Btn than in the blinds right?? As we have position post flop and can play worse hands a lot easier??

Yeah I think BTN is the best place to 3bet from (especially as a bluff) because you are in position.

Yeah squeeze is low. I don't know what is the best CC stat is but yours is almost double what mine is.

Yes, and 3bet from BTN/CO vs UTG TAGs/nits cos they'll fold out almost everything assuming you must have a monster - make sure they fold to 3bets first mind! (or call and then fold to cbets )

Originally Posted by JOEBOB69

I don't know what is the best CC stat is but yours is almost double what mine is.

This also reflects the fairly large (but not huge) gap between my VPIP and PFR.

I will CC with AQ, AJ, ATs etc and lower PPs. I also CC with SCs and the higher one gap SCs when the odds are good. Maybe I need to drop the one gappers like 86s and 97s cos I'm not sure they are that profitable anyway. Pretty sure I would call a single raise IP with A5s too, I don't think I should be but can't resist it sometimes!

Maybe I could use the SCs for 3bet bluffs/squeeze occasionally?

Originally Posted by Cafeman31

Yes, and 3bet from BTN/CO vs UTG TAGs/nits cos they'll fold out almost everything assuming you must have a monster - make sure they fold to 3bets first mind! (or call and then fold to cbets )

Will give it a go. Surely UTG nit range is super strong too though? Or are they assuming you know that and therefore must have a monster to 3bet them?

Originally Posted by micromachine

Will give it a go. Surely UTG nit range is super strong too though? Or are they assuming you know that and therefore must have a monster to 3bet them?

When I say nit, I don't mean an uber nit, this is 6max after all. But let's say you open AJs UTG and some TAG 3bets you from the CO and it folds back round to you. What are you doing here?

Not sure how Pt3 works it filters.But in HEM under reports i go to filters<more filters< Pre flop filters< Cold Call= true .Then see what is you losing or winning bb/100 stats.Maybe by position would be the best.

ATM I'm grinding 10NL. I've permanently reduced from 6 tables to 4 tables and started a new graph to track this. I'll post the graph every 5K hands. It's going well so far, apart from one massive mistake shown below.

LESSON OF THE DAY: don't go all in for 300BB effective stacks without the nuts. Villain had fishy stats but I guess this should have been a reluctant fold.


PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($14.66)
SB ($1.77)
BB ($34.44)
Hero (UTG) ($38.26)
MP ($6.09)
CO ($10.57)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J
Hero bets $0.40, 4 folds, BB raises to $0.70, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.45) Q, J, 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.03, BB raises to $2.06, Hero raises to $6.18, BB raises to $33.74 (All-In), Hero calls $27.56

Turn: ($68.93) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($68.93) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $68.93 | Rake: $1.50

Results:
BB had Q, Q (full house, Queens over sixes).
Hero had J, J (full house, Jacks over sixes).
Outcome: BB won $67.43

5K hands since 4 tabling 10NL:

10nl 4tables 5Khands.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42263&d=1330219874)

i am never ever folding that hand

Originally Posted by Tyler69

i am never ever folding that hand

Nor should anyone ever consider it. Thinking otherwise is just being results oriented.

also has your 3b% gone up yet since you said you were going to start 3betting light more? because 2% 3b your just not going to get any action when you move up and play vs better players

Originally Posted by Tyler69

also has your 3b% gone up yet since you said you were going to start 3betting light more? because 2% 3b your just not going to get any action when you move up and play vs better players

Over the last 5K hands it's gone up from 2% to 3.5%, I'm working on it Would be more but atm I have to actively concentrate on doing it, and sometimes I forget.

Been including more 3bet bluffs in position, particularly against villains who can fold to 3bets. Before was just using A2s-A5s for my 3bet bluffs, now using lots of different hands: AXs, KXs, SCs and some stuff like QTo. Like this my range should be more balanced.

I have read that 6-9% is optimal, and allows you to get plenty of action with your premium hands.

Originally Posted by Tyler69

i am never ever folding that hand

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Nor should anyone ever consider it. Thinking otherwise is just being results oriented.

Rly? When he 5bet shoved for 300BB I thought "fck, he's got the queens!" but then "he could also possibly have 66, AA, KK, Q6, J6 or maybe AQ".

Trouble is loose-passive players like this are unlikely to be so aggressive with one-pair hands for this much, making AA, KK and AQ unlikely, and 66, Q6 and J6 are unlikely to call the PF 3bet.

66 makes it to that flop imo. It was a cooler, and if we have bottom set here we could consider folding, but as played, unless we're against a nit who ALWAYS has QQ here, I would call as you did.

I wouldn't worry too much about your exact 3bet %. If you find a nice spot for a squeeze, or you're on the button and a reg who folds to 3bets a lot opens in MP or CO, just pop it up every now and then with whatever. Apart from that, I would say at the micros you probably ought to be skewing your 3bets towards value (include AQ and such to people who don't fold). And because people don't fold that much, you want to make sure you don't spew postflop. You only need to spew post once to undo all your gains from folds in previous 3bet spots. If you 3bet light and get called, you can c/f flops for England. Try choosing spots that are insta profit, so c/fing any flop is fine. What I mean is, if a reg folds to 3bets in the CO 80%, that's an insta profit 3bet spot. If he calls, shut down unless you hit the flop hard.

Of course pre flop stats tell us something, but seriously, too much is made of it imo. Play the game as optimally as you know how, and improve from there. This will not mean fitting your preflop stats into some awesomeness range (27/24/3 3b 9%). What it does mean is showing up with the goods and value betting when you have them, or bluffing when you know he's got to fold, or folding when they won't fold and you have the worst hand. Anyone can achieve preflop stat awesomeness (just use a hand chart - you know, the awesome one), but are they winning? That's not to say that the biggest winners at any stake don't have awesome stats, but they're also probably good enough post flop to play like that. We probably aren't... yet!

Now you're only playing 4 tables, you can really focus on villain tendencies, finding spots, etc. This is how you will win. For example, my stats on one table were maniacal last night, simply because there were two uber nits to my left. I open minraised EVERY (I mean literally ATC!) SB and BTN while on that table. That is the insta profit spot I'm talking about. If they called and I didn't hit, I c/f, if they 3bet, I fold. Nice little earner

/rant

I should have listened to you 2 months ago CM. 4 tables is the nuts!

I am analyzing villains properly, making moves and table selecting better.

Good point about skewing 3bets for value against those that don't fold.

I read somewhere about polarizing 3bets IP and merging OOP, do you do this? Now I am bluffing more from the BTN than the blinds...

Playing more hands from the BTN no matter what is always better imo. I 3bet according to villain tendencies more than my position I think. If they fold a lot then I throw in some shit, and if they call a lot I prefer to be IP with a stronger range than they will call with. I don't really get too fancy tbh unless I have a history with a reg, then it can go a bit nuts sometimes!

I don't think I played this very well lol

Villain was aggressive over a small sample size - 32/24 16% 3bet (41 hands).

At the time I thought he was probably barreling with air and that I had a good enough hand to take to showdown. In hindsight I think I should have raised the flop or turn. Which is better? Kill it early or take a risk for a bigger pot on the turn?

By the river I was pretty sure I had the best hand when he checked, so I bet for value hoping 2 pairs and sets might make a thin call. Not sure if that was a mistake though as it is unlikely that worse hands call with 4 to a suit on the board.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($11.19)
MP ($10.43)
CO ($8.49)
Hero (Button) ($10.06)
SB ($14.43)
BB ($20.32)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 10
UTG bets $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 2, 7, 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.75) K (2 players)
UTG bets $1.17, Hero calls $1.17

River: ($4.09) J (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.95, UTG calls $1.95

Total pot: $7.99 | Rake: $0.36

Results:
Hero had 10, 10 (flush, King high).
UTG had Q, A (flush, King high).
Outcome: UTG won $7.63

Originally Posted by micromachine

I don't think I played this very well lol

I agree.


This

At the time I thought he was probably barreling with air and that I had a good enough hand to take to showdown.

and this

By the river ... I bet for value hoping 2 pairs and sets might make a thin call.

do NOT make sense together!!! Either his range is weak and you can call down with 3rd pair OR he's got lots of strong hands in his range that he might call a bet with on a four flush river that you can still beat. Can't have it both ways.

Start with a range and narrow it. Don't start with a range and reshape it any time it suits (or scares) you.

As played, check back the river and show it down. He doesn't call with enough combos that you beat to make betting the river +EV and he's not folding a better flush.

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

do NOT make sense together!!! Either his range is weak and you can call down with 3rd pair OR he's got lots of strong hands in his range that he might call a bet with on a four flush river that you can still beat. Can't have it both ways.

Start with a range and narrow it. Don't start with a range and reshape it any time it suits (or scares) you.

I didn't change the range I put him on, it was always largely air with a small number of strong hands. The river changes everything by massively increasing the chances that I hold the best hand. This is why I switched from calling down hoping my tens were ahead of his range to betting for value. Am I thinking about this wrong?

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

As played, check back the river and show it down. He doesn't call with enough combos that you beat to make betting the river +EV and he's not folding a better flush.

Yeah I thought that was a mistake!

Well..... I'm new to 6-max so.... I don't know, but I disagree with just about everything you did here.

You've got 10-10 IP against an aggro villain. I'm 3-betting this pre. I know he 3-bets alot, so I might check his "fold to 3-bet"/ "4-bet" stats first, but generally I'm re-popping it here pre-flop. Just too many bad things can come-out on the flop for your hand. 'Course a 4-bet shove from him isn't good either, but at least I get away from this relatively cheaply if that happens.

As played, on the flop I am generally never flatting here. True, he could still be WA since we didn't get much information from him pre-flop, but if you're going to go on with this hand, I'd get aggressive here and raise to see his response. I'm almost never flatting here, except maybe if I'm on a weak flush draw. I'm betting any kind of strong draw, over-pair to flop, etc.

Turn....ugh. terrible card for your hand. Lots of Kx type hands in his range, plus a potential flush got there. You've shown no aggression to this point and, as expected, he just keeps firing, but we really have no idea where he is at in this hand due to our passive play on earlier streets.

River .... ugh. Another terrible card. Now we have two overs to our hand on the board and a 4-flush. Fourtunately for us, villain now eases-up and just checks. I'm checking behind all-day on this board. There just isn't much out there that will call any type of bet that you actually beat.

Anyway, as I said I'm new to 6-max, so feel free to disagree with anything/everything here, but I would have played this hand totally differently.

I agree with most of that Rudy. Apart from the river being a terrible card for me. Most of the time that card's going to win me the hand.

I knew I played this one bad, which is why I posted it!

Agree that re-raising flop or turn would have been better.

I disagree. I really don't like raising at any point in the hand.

If we 3bet preflop he likely folds all the things we have great equity against and occasionally he'll 4bet bluff since he's so aggro and he did raise from UTG (not that his range is super strong but it's easier to 4bet as a bluff from EP). We also lose the chance to stack a big pair by hitting our set.

If we raise the flop we don't allow him to keep barreling on later streets (which is this guy's biggest weakness) Also by calling we don't give him the chance to put us in a shitty spot if he shoves over our raise which he's bound to do with all his draws as well as his made hands.

Raising the turn is even worse than raising the flop imo since the FD got there and the board is still not super scary for us with only one over. We also have a single club and position.

Originally Posted by micromachine

I agree with most of that Rudy. Apart from the river being a terrible card for me. Most of the time that card's going to win me the hand.

I knew I played this one bad, which is why I posted it!

Agree that re-raising flop or turn would have been better.

OK, good to see that I'm on the right track with all this 6-max stuff. I probably do leave a lot of value on the tables at times, since I actually feel that I do check-behind too often on the river. That's a flaw in my game that I just noticed a few days ago while looking over my stats. But, at this point I have less than 10K hands of 6-max, so I don't feel secure enough in my reads to go for a lot of thin-value type stuff on the river.

I like your call down, and would agree that yes, your river bet was a little too thin maybe. Not a disaster of a hand though - well not compared to some of my shockers anyways

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

I disagree. I really don't like raising at any point in the hand.

If we 3bet preflop he likely folds all the things we have great equity against and occasionally he'll 4bet bluff since he's so aggro and he did raise from UTG (not that his range is super strong but it's easier to 4bet as a bluff from EP). We also lose the chance to stack a big pair by hitting our set.

If we raise the flop we don't allow him to keep barreling on later streets (which is this guy's biggest weakness) Also by calling we don't give him the chance to put us in a shitty spot if he shoves over our raise which he's bound to do with all his draws as well as his made hands.

Raising the turn is even worse than raising the flop imo since the FD got there and the board is still not super scary for us with only one over. We also have a single club and position.

Ok, voice of dissention.... Say it isn't so.... WVH found a spot where he DOESN'T like a raise?????? What'd you do with the real WVH. Anyway, my thinking, flawed though it may be, was to take the pot down early. I'm not really looking to play a big pot here since most flops, and certainly most completed boards, are going to contain over-cards to our 10-10.

Forget about the flush implications. I'm generally putting villain on lots of broadway-type cards here since he is UTG. I don't know if he has a lot of total air in his range or not since he is UTG. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Anyway, assuming a flop/board with over-cards and an aggro villain who is likely to keep firing (and figuring un-paired broadway cards, plus stuff like K-9, Q-9, J-8 etc etc make a large portion of his range), I think this is a spot where I'd just like to take this down early rather than keep facing repeated bets on every street and essentially be guessing if any of the overcards that hit are likely to have helped his hand.

I'm willing to admit this may not be the optimal play (pre-flop 3bet), and I'd like to know his F3B/4B stats first, but at this stage of my development (or lack thereof ) I'm most comfortable trying to end this hand quickly.