Micro FR Group: Blind Stealing

Hey guys,

So the original idea of these posts was to use the COTW's to fuel discussion here, this weeks is about Rush Poker though, and as I think the majority of us are playing regular FR games I thought we could give that a miss, instead I think we should concentrate on stealing!

A good piece of reading material can be found here -

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ealing-419666/

Some more reading for this, which links into last weeks and is an important part of this weeks, can be found here -

Exploiting Your Opponents Part 2 : Nits

Stealing is obv a big part of being a winning player at the micros, and its important to keep an eye on your stealing :

How much are you stealing
Is it profitable for you (it should be)
If not, why not
If your stealing % is low where are you missing opportunities

I'm not going to be able to input much stats wise for a week or so, as i'v only got 3k hands in at 10nl right now, and i'm running bad so results are skewed, but i'll add my stats to start things off.

Overall Attempt to Steal - 41.9%

Positionally
SB - 29.7%
CO - 39%
BTN - 52%

Overall Steal Success - 67.1% (Note: Not sure how this stat is worked out)

Positionally
SB - 68.4%
C0 - 63.3%
BTN - 70.3%

And finally, am I making a profit through all this stealing. The below stats are the results filtered for.

Position - SB/CO/BTN
Facing - Unopened
PFR = True
Hole cards deselected - JJ+ AQo+ AQs+ (As these are being raised for value not for stealing purposes)


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So, It would appear I am doing well, you can even widen the holecards filter even more to

Hole cards deselected - 55+ ATo+ ATs+ KQo KQs


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When i started this thread I didnt actually know my winrates in the above shots btw, so this isnt a peen-waving contest entry by myself, lolsamplesize anyways, but i'd be really interested to see what larger sample sizes look like with these filters cuz for all I know this could be sustainable at micros lol

I'll try and contribute a bit more in this one, as I have been pre-occupied with being a horse lately, but in the meantime, get posting stats and screenshots and lets all learn to be better robbing bas***ds

I play 6-max but I just looked over some of my stats and found something interesting. Obv my 11k sample size this year at 2nl is lol.

Overall attempt to steal is 32%.

I'm 18/43/42 CO/BTN/SB.


I'm losing at 21.35bb/100 stealing from the BTN with the original value range you suggested removed. Might be small sample variance (377 hands) but it's quite disconcerting.

It could also be the fact that more people are going to be playing back at you from the blinds @ 6max. I'm guessing that your not on the right of half as many nittiest of the nits as a typical MicroFR player.

Something to look into though, and already we could have found a leak for one of our members so these discussions could be going somewhere

With the value range removed it might be worth filtering for pots lost that are >0 but <15bbs and seeing how much of that -21.35bb/100 is made up of tiny pots where you have been 3bet and folded, maybe your not 4betting enough, stealing from the wrong people etc etc???

EDIT: Also add like 0> <30bbs (Remember in HEM the filter for this say BB so half accordingly!) for poss spots where you have been 3bet small, cold-called and then played fit or fold on the flop??

Running the same filter for steal from button - value range but filtering for pots less than 20bb's (I made sure to put 10BB's ) I'm running at 136bb/100. When I filter for less than 30bb's it's 124bb/100 so I think my steals are working well. Must be either small sample variance or possibly I'm showing down too many poor hands in steal pots.

Any idea how I can look and see if it's variance or not? I'm going to have a mess around and see if I can.

EDIT: Had a look at when I cold call a 3-bet after a steal and I've done it 7 times. Every time it's because a big fish has 3-bet and I have like QK or a shorstack or something so I'm happy with my decisions when I do flat there.

How do you do this with PT3? Last week i was busy so i want to get back into it this week.

I tried Filter: Position between 9 and 1 (I might be wrong there) deselected JJ+, AQo+, AQs+, action: chance to steal, raised

and then nothing came up so obv i'm doing something wrong

Don't know for PT3 but in HEM it's as easy as selecting a position like Button, deselcting the hands, ticking a box that says unopened in the section about action beforehand and sellecting did PFR.

I think they important bits are filtering for unopened before you and PFR=True. Then decide on a position.

I'm not sure at all about PT3 filters, a better person might be WV as I know he has given PT3 alternatives in the past, maybe he can come and chime in.

So this isnt getting as much love as the isolating limpers thread, although that did get de-railed into a bigger discussion, it could possibly be that stealing isnt a complex enough topic, nit to your left open ATC, rinse and repeat??......the answer would be to ditch the simple stuff and talk about triple range merging and meta-game iso 3bet squeezing but then that isnt going to help us climb mount micro, more like fall down it

Maybe theres just not the audience for discussion and we should try and go down the MSN/Skype, sweat sessions road???

This is a great topic of discussion that I believe is one of my biggest money makers. When I am going through table selection I am always looking for big pots and loose players, but often end up at a table full of people doing the same. They play tight and never realize that everyone who was spewing has been broke and gone. Since I multi table it sometimes takes me a few cycles to catch on, but these turn into profitable tables as well. I now have 2-3 seats that I can pick up small pots with little resistance. Almost makes you want to search for the tightest table...almost. At work so I don't have any stats on my success.

I know this probably isn't the best spot to talk about it, but I think table selection would be a great topic for another time...I know that is one area I am almost completely at a loss of information.

I havent had much time this week so far to play or discuss poker. I will say that a lot of the concepts used for iso-ing limpers apply to stealing the blinds. Essentially you are still iso-ing limpers except they didnt have a choice in the matter so it should be even easier cause they dont always have a hand they want to play and youll always have position.

Yeah think we all need to get involved in the msn/skype sweat session things and see if we're messing up / missing good spots... and good point about the fact that we dont wanna get fancy play syndrome at our levels... maybe just getting down all the spots where we can exploit in a broader sense, like what works at our levels, like 3betting from the button when a cut off with a wide range puts in a standard range and has a fold to 3bet of 80% (these guys are everywhere at 10NL) is a good thing to add to our game from time to time, but yeah ill properly read the blind stealing cotw later in the week havent had anytime in the last few days which is why i havent been active in the discussion, only played 2k hands at 10NL so havent got a massive sample on success rates yet either

I dont know if Im doing my filters right for PT3. Does anyone know if "chance to steal" is all I need to check?

im struggling with the filters for PT3 as well. And i think you check "chance to steal, raise' but i have no idea

i dont get the pt3 filters either, how do you deselect hands on it also?

I just use the 'select all' button and then click the hands that I don't want. Works for me.

Ya I select all too but the problem I think were having is filtering for attempt to steal

Rightttt (thanks btw i managed to work it)

Ive only played like 3.8k hands at 10NL but, clicking chance to steal - raised, and deselecting JJ+, AQ,+ , i came out with BB/100 of 57.5

No flop - 55.15
Fold - 25.74
Won w/o SD - 72.44
Went to SD - 6.6
Won $ SD - 77.8

Can anyone explain the differences between no flop and won w/o SD? Does this mean that 55% of the time they all fold? And are my numbers all within what we expect?

No flop is meaning that you take down the pot with your pfr. As for won w/o SD I don't know if that means you take it down on a later street 72.44% of ALL your steal attempts or if it is ONLY WHEN THEY CALL your steal attempt pre-flop.