For Loose Aggressive Players Only

#1 16-02-2007, 1:40 PM

What is the deal with calling 4...5....9xbb with cards like 29, 36, 48, etc. preflop. This thread is not meant to berate anyone, I just don't see the logic in calling with cards that you HAVE to hit both of your cards, in short get extremely lucky in order to win...what's up with that? Let me know.

#2 16-02-2007, 2:20 PM

okwhat stakes we talking here

#3 16-02-2007, 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefanicov

okwhat stakes we talking here

It does not make a difference Stef - this is almost a standard Gus Hansen play. The idea being - If someone raises 4 or 5 times the BB and u know they are a standard type player, they are going to be on some kind of premium pair, AK, AQ or possibly 1010, JJ, etc. Hansen will normally have position.

He knows that even if the other guys misses the flop they will normally put in a continuation bet. He will call. If they check the turn, he will then bet.

As you say Stef, if they do catch 2 pair, trips, straight draw, etc, it will be very hard to spot.

Check out a thread I put together by Allsop Do ANY of u agree with Allsopp here??? I don`t!!!

It created a lot of debate but it does go over the point you are talking about.

Hope this helps

#4 16-02-2007, 10:31 PM

Lag players do not call 4-5xBB with hands like that, they re-raise with hands like that and they do this because the sense you are a weak tight player and will lay down alot of premium hands to the re-raise and if you don't lay it down then they can hit the flop big and bust you because you wont be able to lay down a big pair. Gus rarely CALLS with hands like that, he raises with them.

if you are playing with players that are just calling with junk like that then you are just playing bad players not LAG players.

#5 16-02-2007, 11:02 PM

I play lag occasionally and wag and tag and you play hnds like tht purely on implied odds if i hit you wont lay down your big hnd I ave been called all in by ace high more times thn i can count you hve to be able to lay down big hnds if you know u r behind which i cant but i am working on it

#6 16-02-2007, 11:14 PM

Its the same reason I called in A.C. last week with 55. I knew I was behind but I also knew If I hit that I would stack the guy. Its same reason I talked to him and told him he was beat because i knew he wouldn't lay down a overpair. Hell I told him he had a overpair and was beat and he still called.

so I took a $10 call preflop and turned it into a $300 pot or so, Now in the case of total rags like you say this guy called with, No im not just calling with those im reraising you. If I know you are a TAG player then im giving myself multiple way to win this pot and one is you folding something like a AQ or KQ, the other is outflopping and then outplaying you. Say Im holding T7 and QT7 or something like that flops. My hand is well disguised and I don't think you are getting away from that. TAG players are usually not really good at laying down top pair, dont get me wrong some are but in general especially online where you cant see me look at my chips after I see the flop (that is a live read for anyone that didn't know)

#7 17-02-2007, 7:10 AM

loose agressive players are easy to spot and easy to beat for me since i am a very tight player.

#8 17-02-2007, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzbball04

loose agressive players are easy to spot and easy to beat for me since i am a very tight player.

The basic rule are never far wrong. If a table is loose, play tight, if a table is tight, loosen up.

I am in the main a tight player - I have not mastered the loose aggressive way yet. The best way to play loose players, IMO, is to not get into a confruntation with them heads up, unless u have almost the nuts. I am talking the first hour of a game here. As the game goes on u will obviously change.

The way I play them is to let them go over the top and steal blinds, if I have Axs in middle position and I call, if they come over the top let them take it. What I am waiting for is a premium pair or an excellent flop to slow play them. Most of the time it will work - they have been watching u thinking u r weak, so if u check the flop or call with AA, KK, etc u know u will get raised. In the first hour of a rebuy I would then go all in - these guys are always tempted to call. If not, they know they have been busted so they slow down.

I always accept that from time to time they will bust me either they will have a monster or they will catch 2 pair, their K5s will catch runner runner for flush, etc, but in the main they won`t.

Just my humble opinion.

#9 17-02-2007, 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormswa

Its the same reason I called in A.C. last week with 55. I knew I was behind but I also knew If I hit that I would stack the guy. Its same reason I talked to him and told him he was beat because i knew he wouldn't lay down a overpair. Hell I told him he had a overpair and was beat and he still called.

so I took a $10 call preflop and turned it into a $300 pot or so, Now in the case of total rags like you say this guy called with, No im not just calling with those im reraising you. If I know you are a TAG player then im giving myself multiple way to win this pot and one is you folding something like a AQ or KQ, the other is outflopping and then outplaying you. Say Im holding T7 and QT7 or something like that flops. My hand is well disguised and I don't think you are getting away from that. TAG players are usually not really good at laying down top pair, dont get me wrong some are but in general especially online where you cant see me look at my chips after I see the flop (that is a live read for anyone that didn't know)

this is possibly the smartest, most in depth answer anyone has ever given, kudos to you, at least it makes sense...but you can't convince me that most of the players that play crap hands think like this, especially calling bets on the flop with no pair or draw lol. Usually these types of players don't last too long at the table with me, but wanted to get others POV.

#10 17-02-2007, 2:45 PM

I do it but i cant say ive ever put any thought or expertise in it.

When i look at 54s or 76s, and im doing well on a table, i love to call raises with it (i dont re-raise because like i said i dunno what im doing lol)

A lot of times youll miss flops and i may get a draw thatll give me some security in raising your c-bet. For example say flop is J63. I have a straight draw and its very likely you missed it. if i raise your bet what would you put me on? very least AJ, or 66 or JJ....And if you call it and do have some kinda hand, oh well i still have my draw.

Other times i may flop a big hand and take it.

Most of the time i end up screwing it up

Had 75s on a tabel today and flop came J98. I re-raised what i thought was a c-bet, he called, and checked turn. I checked back since my re-raise was big and he called it which made me think i wasnt gonna get him off of hand. River was a 6 and made my straight. He bet out and i put him all-in. Turns out he had JJ lol and i rivered him. He called me a donk for like an hour

#11 17-02-2007, 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1983

I do it but i cant say ive ever put any thought or expertise in it.

When i look at 54s or 76s, and im doing well on a table, i love to call raises with it (i dont re-raise because like i said i dunno what im doing lol)

A lot of times youll miss flops and i may get a draw thatll give me some security in raising your c-bet. For example say flop is J63. I have a straight draw and its very likely you missed it. if i raise your bet what would you put me on? very least AJ, or 66 or JJ....And if you call it and do have some kinda hand, oh well i still have my draw.

Other times i may flop a big hand and take it.

Most of the time i end up screwing it up

Had 75s on a tabel today and flop came J98. I re-raised what i thought was a c-bet, he called, and checked turn. I checked back since my re-raise was big and he called it which made me think i wasnt gonna get him off of hand. River was a 6 and made my straight. He bet out and i put him all-in. Turns out he had JJ lol and i rivered him. He called me a donk for like an hour

As a rule, the more chips i have the more power I show, or passive i am, never one or the other, ty for the response. Obviously there are opinions about playing hands like that and why you def. shouldn't especially with a chip lead and a target on you, but that's for another thread.

....lol

#12 17-02-2007, 4:56 PM

never one or the other, ty ....thta's wrong, never in the middle is what i mean

#13 17-02-2007, 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U Wanna Fold

this is possibly the smartest, most in depth answer anyone has ever given, kudos to you, at least it makes sense...but you can't convince me that most of the players that play crap hands think like this, especially calling bets on the flop with no pair or draw lol. Usually these types of players don't last too long at the table with me, but wanted to get others POV.

no most players that play crap hands are playing them because they are either really bad players or are there just to have fun, both instances its a goldmine to sit at that table.

The ones to watch out for are the ones raising with hands like 5-7 suited not the ones calling and praying to flop something. The ones raising with them are uninterested in the flop and just paying attention to you and how you play.

good LAG players are basically playing you and not just the cards, sounds corny I know. Soon as the flop hits they are watching you and haven't even seen the flop yet, they are seeing if you are reaching for chips or looking at the flop praying the cards will magically change to help their hand. And then they are acting accordingly. Lag style is very hard to play and basically LAG players want the Tight players at the table, Lag player vs Lag player just does not work.

If someone is calling with no pair no draw on flop then he is horrible player, Lag players NEED to be in control of the hand the entire hand, if they lose control then they are supposed to and should coincide the hand and wait. When I'm playing lag at anytime If I get re-raised then I need to fold, so if I have something like 5-7 and a ace flops and I try to represent the ace and bet the flop and get re-raised then basically you are telling me "no dude you dont have it because I do". Then I just take a moment act like I'm folding something like KK or QQ and muck it.

#14 19-02-2007, 4:38 AM

STORMS.. are you going to play any of the indiana wsop circuit events?

#15 19-02-2007, 4:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

STORMS.. are you going to play any of the indiana wsop circuit events?

didn't consider it, do you have a link for the schedule? Being able to fly free it wouldn't be that hard for me to go down there for that.

#16 19-02-2007, 4:45 AM

I found it

WSOP Circuits, 2007 WSOP Tournament Circuit - Caesars Indiana Poker Tournament, a World Series of Poker Circuit Event

I dont know I kinda like some of the buy-ins.

thanks for reminding me of this, I will move my schedule around at work see if I can make it out there next month.

I might play the Atlantic City circuit events instead.

WSOP Circuits, 2007 WSOP Tournament Circuit - Harrah's's Atlantic City, a World Series of Poker Circuit Event

I wont play the championship because I can not drop 5k in one tournament, I would rather use that in wsop but the pre-events I can play.

#17 19-02-2007, 5:00 AM

me either. i plan on playing one or two of the $300-$500~ events. tell me so i know if i want to. a few others expressed interest, and im curious as to who all will go.

#18 19-02-2007, 5:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

me either. i plan on playing one or two of the $300-$500~ events. tell me so i know if i want to. a few others expressed interest, and im curious as to who all will go.

walking over to calender now...

....

....
...
.
.

I'm off March 5th and 6th so dont see why I couldn't play.

#19 19-02-2007, 5:13 AM

5th and 6th? their stuff doesnt start til march 26th..

#20 19-02-2007, 5:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

5th and 6th? their stuff doesnt start til march 26th..

do I have wrong link?

WSOP Circuits, 2007 WSOP Tournament Circuit - Harrah's's Atlantic City, a World Series of Poker Circuit Event

#21 19-02-2007, 5:30 AM

oh i thought you were talking indiana. how much would the expenses be from STL->A.C.?

#22 19-02-2007, 5:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

oh i thought you were talking indiana. how much would the expenses be from STL->A.C.?

for me the travel expenses are nothing, the only problem for me would be getting the days off. I have a cruise to go on in April and pretty much burning through my vacation days. So it comes down to if I could get someone to work for me, now I could give a % of my possible win money and someone might pick up the days. Most of the $300 events are 2 days long though right? Guess I could fly down and play and fly back the next day. Let me see how good I do in the Atlantic City one 1st, as for you flying if it was a month or so later I could possibly get you a buddie pass on a flight but I wont have any till like April.

why do the Indiana ones have 2 buy-ins per day?
guess thats like a 2nd chance one for people that bust out.

might be able to do the 26th one.

just checked my airline from Indianapolis to Philli would be about $110 or so each way, If you came down I would pick you up in Philli and drive you to Atlantic City because we dont fly into there or you could fly into Baltimore and I could drive you. Might be easier for me just to come to Indiana.

#23 19-02-2007, 9:00 AM

well whatever, just let me know what works best for you. im unencumbered.

#24 19-02-2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormswa

no most players that play crap hands are playing them because they are either really bad players or are there just to have fun, both instances its a goldmine to sit at that table.

The ones to watch out for are the ones raising with hands like 5-7 suited not the ones calling and praying to flop something. The ones raising with them are uninterested in the flop and just paying attention to you and how you play.

good LAG players are basically playing you and not just the cards, sounds corny I know. Soon as the flop hits they are watching you and haven't even seen the flop yet, they are seeing if you are reaching for chips or looking at the flop praying the cards will magically change to help their hand. And then they are acting accordingly. Lag style is very hard to play and basically LAG players want the Tight players at the table, Lag player vs Lag player just does not work.

If someone is calling with no pair no draw on flop then he is horrible player, Lag players NEED to be in control of the hand the entire hand, if they lose control then they are supposed to and should coincide the hand and wait. When I'm playing lag at anytime If I get re-raised then I need to fold, so if I have something like 5-7 and a ace flops and I try to represent the ace and bet the flop and get re-raised then basically you are telling me "no dude you dont have it because I do". Then I just take a moment act like I'm folding something like KK or QQ and muck it.

this is a good example of a LAG player....Most are playing TAG so I took it upon myself to use the advice I found in this post.

PokerStars Game #8515536856: Tournament #43326691, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/02/19 - 05:17:14 (ET)
Table '43326691 61' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: carinthia (1470 in chips)
Seat 2: Exile 72 (815 in chips)
Seat 3: ratzundruebe (1685 in chips)
Seat 4: Solon-Nl (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: Big Readi (740 in chips)
Seat 6: Orion469 (1440 in chips)
Seat 7: finewhine (1660 in chips)
Seat 8: dukes27 (4580 in chips)
Seat 9: Rustyseb78 (1670 in chips)
Solon-Nl: posts small blind 15
Big Readi: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Orion469 [3c 4d]--has some potential
Orion469: raises 60 to 90--3xBB says small to med PP or high suited connectors
finewhine: folds
dukes27: folds
Rustyseb78: folds
carinthia: folds
Exile 72: folds
ratzundruebe: calls 90
Solon-Nl: folds
Big Readi: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Td Th]
Orion469: bets 180--I hit the board, fold
ratzundruebe: folds
Orion469 collected 225 from pot
Orion469: shows [3c 4d] (a pair of Tens)--I think this may have been a bad idea but then some players may have noticed and will pay off my monsters

#25 19-02-2007, 8:35 PM

you should mostly do it when in position though.

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