live cash game advice needed

i'm a SNG player looking to make the transition to live cash games. i think i have a general understanding of the game. i think i have put in enough hours live to know that i can beat the game but i don't just want to beat it... i want to crush it and move up!

what is the best/fastest way to learn optimal strategy to beat live NLHE?

i do have a few books i want to purchase/read before i play my next session.
any recommendations?

what about coaching? do you know any good (reasonably priced) coaches that specialize in live NLHE?

i think the main thing i need to focus on is short stack strategy. most of the players i have played with at $200NL buy-in for the minimum ($100) and don't rebuy until busto.
i know i have made the mistake of set-mining with PP's in the past against these short stacks.

any advice/recommendations is appreciated.
cheers!

Yeah don't set mine with a short stack. Read the golden archives here to learn some good concepts . Make sure to find/read chuckts' post about why we bet. To practice, constantly play 2nl and 5nl. Live players are horrible and those stakes play similarly to 200nl live.

Just a warning. It's very possible to crush live 200nl but understand you will be playing a much smaller amount of hands per hour which in turn means that downswings and not getting great hands will last WAY longer than it does online plus you can't multitable. Playing live is amazing but can get boring and frustrating

unfortunately live is my only option at the moment if i want to make any serious money.
at least until the U.S. gets online poker sorted out.
thx 4 the advice bgomez

Make serious money? You want to go pro?

so just gonna be grinding out the 1 2 tables then? I Live in the michigan area and its very possible to grind these out. The secret is to keep a good image at the table and to hit and run. Always hit and run set a limit and whenver you hit that mark cashout. If you happen to lose one day ( like 2 buyins) whiich for me is 200, dont play for the rest of the day. You can easily profit these out in live games and really can if you stick to these easy key points.
Hope that helps!!
TTYL

yes and yes! i know $20/hr is possible at 200nl live. would like to work my way up to $2/$5 and then who knows. casino near me usually has 1-3 tables of $5/$10 running daily. i've played the $2/$5 level there once but i am not rolled for it yet.
interesting. most say to keep playing if the table is soft and switch tables or quit if filled with rocks. will keep in mind b/c i will be under rolled in the beginning.

How long have you been playing for?

15 years. but i never focused on NLHE cash games. in the early years it was all limit games and then recently SNG's and MTT's.
my knowledge of NLHE cash games is all from reading forums and playing the game.
so very limited as to what the optimal strategy is.

im just asking because becoming a professional poker player, from what I've heard, is a very difficult job. Pretty taxing on you mentally and physically. It's not always a reliable source of income.

I don't know you so I'm not sure what your current situation is now but if you don't have a job and are looking to cash games to be your source of income I'd say stay away from that. If you have a job now and can afford to play cash games here and there at the casinos to get a feel for it and study online to eventually go pro, I think that's fine

i agree... i had a taste of what it is like to play as a pro just before black friday. SNG's were my only source of income for 7 months.
attempted to make it live right after BF. i only had $2,300 to work with plus $900 was locked up on stars. $3,200 total but at the time i didn't know if or when i would get pokerstars money. after 2 weeks i was down $500 at $1/$2... got nervous and stopped playing. started looking for work.

so now i have a job and trying to rebuild. i DO want to make a living from this game and believe i can make it happen. i just need to fine tune my cash game skills (however i go about that., i'm not sure yet) and save a much larger bankroll.

Ah ok good luck. It's going to be much easier and less stressful since you have a job to fall back on/supply your br with

This is bad advice. And this is why...
the question the first paragraph is referring to is "Why didn't you quit when you were ahead?"
Something you’ll never hear
Now, folks, there’s no logic whatsoever to that common question. Whenever you’re confronted with it, you have a right to be mystified. From a rational viewpoint, there’s no reason for you to suppose, when you’re winning any stated amount, $200 or whatever, that you’re more likely to lose from that point on than to win.
If you have the best of it and feel like continuing to play, there’s no logical reason whatsoever to quit. When you have an advantage, you have an advantage, period. That means every additional wager has a profitable expectation, whether luck is kind to you or not.
You don’t save money by quitting now, scoring that $200 win, and continuing the next day. The next day is just an extension of right now. You might run bad now, but you might run bad tomorrow. You can’t protect your money by quitting, and if you have an advantage, you theoretically lose profit by quitting. It’s just that simple.
And now I’m going to prove it to you. Here’s the question you will never hear asked. The next time you win $1,000 or more gambling, do you think your wife, your husband, your friend, or anyone is going to criticize you by asking, “Why didn’t you quit when you were $200 ahead?” Think about it. — MC
Read the rest of Mr. Caro's article here http://www.poker1.com/archives/7027

If this is your first cash games, my advice is to start at the lower stakes and then when you master those move up and so on and so on.....Until you find a cash game you are comfortable at and can see a profit.....

Patience, Bankroll Management and Ego Control is what you need to master.....and everything else will fall into place.

Good Luck at the tables.....

To the op,
My advice a live cash game player is to learn different games. In my local b&m(s) the best (most profitable/easiest to beat) games are rarely NLHE. Certain days they spread Limit Omaha hilo, pot limit HOE, etc...
Remember that your goal is to find a game that the skill level gap between you and the worst players is the widest. Often times I'm playing NLHE and avoiding 6 players and targeting 2. So, There is 7 players waiting to split up 2 players money. In these other games I'm often feeling like I should win money from 5 or 6 players at least.
A few good reasons.
1) Softer play at the different games.
2) A nice break from the grind of NLHE
3) Fixed limit Omaha HiLo often plays much bigger than the betting limits...JUICY GAMES and lots of profit.
4) In a mixed game most people are good at only 1 or 2 games and are horrible at the other(s). This favors the hardest worker/best student of the game. At the games you don't have an edge in just tighten way up and play late position.
5) Your bankroll in a fixed limit game is far less volatile.
6) Becoming proficient in other games will improve your NLHE.

Two books for cash game/ b&m players.
Ace on The River: Barry Greenstein
Super System 2: Doyle Brunson and others. (Great for learning other games!)

agreed tusabes, but would you ever consider locking up a win if your under-rolled for the game?
i know i know, should always use good BRM but i'm not going to wait until i save enough from working to get back in the game. i should have about $400 extra per month from work that i can use to get a bankroll going.

if you only had $400 roll with half on the table and then doubled up, would you consider quitting for the day?
just curious if you would play more cautious on a tiny BR.

thx for the tip. i never studied omaha. occasionally this casino gets $8/$16 O8 running, i hear it's a gr8 game from one of the regulars.

Depends...if you're playing scared then yes quit. If you're confident that it's a profitable game and all signs point to you winning then no def not!

If you continue today or play tomorrow it's irrelevent. Your roll is the same if you quit and restart at a different time or if you continue in the current game. There is no guarantee that the game will be as good next time either.

It's one long session. Play and don't ever stop playing when you have your best game and the game is good...PERIOD. Time has nothing to do with your decision to play.

Hedge your winnings. If you're more comfortable with less money on the table then rathole. A nice thing about the b&m is that you can rat hole some of your winnings. It's pretty easy to do this without anyone noticing.

Here's a little gem for you -
http://www.pokerlistings.com/strateg...ushing-live-12

While it may be (is) boring and frustrating. It's the same for everyone at the table. Knowing this, and how to play it can be your friend as well. But that's a feel thing that will be part of your learning experience.

Don't bet into a guy who's actively betting whilst eating. It's pretty much universal that he/she has a hand.

Don't think the wimmins are timid little shrews. If you do, see the next tip..

Don't go in the casino without enough gas to get home. It can be quite embarrassing to stand in front of the casino begging for gas money.

DO bet your winners big, cuz you're prolly gonna have very little problem catching calls.

When you order coffee, ask if they have an upgrade coffee. Most casino's have the swill which is free, and the upgrade (usually Starbucks) for a buck.

Around 2:15 am the drunks will start to get edgy cause they can't get any more booze. Be very attentive of this, as a good spotting will usually garner his/her whole stack.

TIP, TIP, TIP... they pay dealers less than babysitters. So tip. The dealer is your ONLY friend at the table.

At the lower levels play extremely tight and cherry pick. Very boring and long haul orientated. But you will make daily money. Won't have much fun, but....

Get to know the floor men by name.

I'll think of more. This is what I do...

While it's true that these games can be quite profitable, you must also understand that these games are usually populated by grumpy old men (which is why I love Omaha8) that have been playing the game since their hair wasn't gray. Very tough field. And if you're new to their game, they will be ganging up on you.


-

hehehehehe. . . .

yes and yes

1 thing to add. . . . be careful of the guy having a beer, not liquor; he is very possibly in it for the long haul. . .