A little pre-flop help: micros

Just started playing lots of micro cash games the last week or so, was mainly playing SNG's or Omaha H/L before this. Anyway, because of all the limping at this level there are times when I'm not quite sure whether I should be joining the limpfest, or just folding. (or of course raising)

One example: On the button with a non-suited ace, let's just say it's an A-8os. There are 3 limpers in the pot ahead of you. Part of me want's to raise and try and force all these limpers out, but it always seems there are at least 2 who will call and of course a hand like this doesn't play well in a multi-way pot. So is better to fold, or limp. Or do I try the raise anyway and keep the initiative?

Another example: In the SB with a hand like 5-6os. 3 or 4 limpers in the pot. I know you're suppose to play tight in the blinds, but if I just have to complete, given the limpers already in there...I am suppose to call, right??

tbh, I fold in both of those situations.
In micros, the blinds are so low it is not really worth the steal, and If you hit the Ace with the A8o hand, you are bound to run into trouble with that kicker if you run into another Ace holder.
I am a nit though, so many others may have different advise.

Fold in both of those situations.

Responses in bold.

Raise. Isolate a fish or two with an A in your hand. +EV.

In OP's statement there are 3 limpers.

Run a filter where you raise more than 2 limper's with A2 - A9o.

Do you show a profit?

It would be very unusual if you did

Thanks for the help. I've been mainly folding with the first scenario, and calling with the second. I'll probably start folding in both scenarios unless someone gives me a compelling reason not to. By the way, I'm playing at the lowest limits on Full Tilt. The .01-.02 I'm ashamed to say, but now that I've got my feet wet and am doing ok (6.57 BB/100 -5600 hands), I'll probably look to move up. It wasn't a bankroll decision to play this low, just a 'trying something different' decision. And my BB/100 has been going up steadily since I've finally managed to start getting away my hand when being faced with a big re-raise when holding TPTK. It's almost never a bluff at this level...it's finally sunk in.

THe reason you need to fold in the second scenario is despite the price you have a really bad hand. It will not hit often, you are never making a TPGK hand!

When you do hit, its concealed sure, but the fact that everyone has limped means they dont have good hands, not the kind that play for stacks. So of the times you do make a big hand, mostly you wont get to play for stacks.

This means that you never make up for all the times you miss (even though its only 1c!)

[quote=Stu_Ungar;1475584]
When you do hit, its concealed sure, but the fact that everyone has limped means they dont have good hands, not the kind that play for stacks.
quote]

Now I get it for real!

never raise thier just gonna call and that is when you are going to see a suckout on the flop, just ride the hand out and see if you cant hit a better pair then they can, then slow play it and get paid off

[x] very bad advice

As usual, "depends" is the phrase of the day. Generally though, folding both those spots seems right.

In the first case though, if the limpers are chronic limp/call->foldonflop then raising may have some merit. Likewise, if everyone in the pot is a spew-y maniac in the second hand there may be more value to a completion as you're more likely to get paid for a stack if you hit.

Barring a decent read though...a fold in both spots is good.

I run into this same kind of issue a reasonable amount of the time and they represent some of the more frustrating decisions. I'm sure a decent number of my mistakes result from pre-flop decisions made in limped pots. It's one of those things that happens all the time in micros and yet is not often covered in poker literature/discussion.

I disagree that you should be folding in the second. In the first, sure. But in the second, you're getting like 9:1 on a call. Go ahead and complete. It really doesn't need to hit often, and if you're playing deep enough and your opponents are loose callers there's definitely value in making that call. I was surprised that the consensus was to fold 56o when there were 3-4 limpers and you only need half a bet to complete. If you're playing within your bankroll it should be no problem to call.

I seem to be in the minority with this opinion, but as a general rule seeing cheap flops with loose, passive opponents is good.

Thanks for explaining him how to lose money quickly. I'd love to see everyone actually doing it. I'll be making much more money

so what if he's getting 9:1? 9 to 1 for less than a 10% chance to flop a flush draw or a 1% chance to flop the flush? I dont get what he would achieve by calling 36s in the sb.

36s also has straight possibilities. 2 pair.

Its not a good idea to complete with hands like this.

36o I don't, but any 2 suited cards and I'll probably be completing especially if I'm getting great odds.

Good luck!

You are asking for trouble when playing a hand like 5 6 off suit. It's even worse if you catch something on the flop. You will still be beat in a multi way pot most of the time after spewing away a bunch of your pennies. If I was planning on playing a hand like that, I would raise to get rid of the limpers and hope I could steal or get lucky against one opponent... but never, never, never from the small blind. You are totally out of position. You have position on no other player here. This is not a good spot (unless you are Tom Dwan). Fold that garbage and let the limpers fight for it. Pay attention to what and how they are playing. Information is the only value for you in this spot. Get on to the next hand.

You're asking for trouble if you don't have confidence in your postflop play. But the way I have lately been playing hold'em after switching to PLO for the past few months, I wouldn't trust myself with aces. I don't know how you can single out 65 when so many hold'em hands are like that, you could easily be outkicked in a hand like K9s but are you folding that from the SB with no raises?

I would be more comfortable on the button. I have plenty of confindence in my postflop play. I just don't have much confidence in 56o. What happens when you complete here? The BB checks...now you are in a multi-way pot with some really bad cards. Say we catch a flop like K64 with the K and the 6 suited. We are first to act on the flop. We could bet our pair, but it is very likely that we are beat by a limper holding Kx. We may also be facing a flush draw and/or a straight draw, two pair, set, etc. It is very, very likely that we are going to have to check/fold on the flop. Why do we want to be in this situation. It is debatable whether the pot odds warrant a call with any two cards here... obviously another penny wouldn't break me, but I don't want to waste my time with these cards. As for the K9 suited... I would be more likely to complete or put in a standard raise if it was folded to me, but I'd be careful if the fop brought a king and I was in a multi-way pot in early position. In these micro-stakes games you never know what people are playing, so that's why I don't recommend bluffing or being creative with weak hands. Premium cards are the name of the game. You can Multi-table if get bored easily or you really just want more action.

Good Luck!

It's good to have a healthy respect for position.

It depends on the table, players, etc. really, but generally I agree with those that said they would fold.