Limpers

I normally don't limp. I might complete the small blind with 33 if there are 2 limpers before me, but that's about it.

So, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. How to deal with limpers. I suppose they are basically people who want to see a flop and see how it fits. Chancers. They most likely fit/fold the flop. Occasionally you'll get some guy limping in AA or some other big hand, but normally it's 57s or K3o right?

In which case, can't we (if we're in position) simply iso raise ATC and take it down PF or with a cbet on the flop? This is +ev with ATC right? Assuming other conditions are met, like tightish/standard players to your left.

So this move then becomes a kind of blind steal, and as such is just as valid a move?

I suppose when I say ATC, I'm not talking about T3o, but almost!

When I first started cash games this is exactly what I did after reading a 2+2 post explaining I could do it. lol.
Obviously looking back its not sustainable and once you pass 5NL it's easily exploitable by anyone who knows what you're doing. But yeah if you're wondering about limpers these two articles are so good it's unreal:

You should open limp (not so much about stealing, but gives you the mindset of a limper)

COTW Isolating limpers

Basically limpers don't like their hand. if they did they would raise, so you can make them uncomfortable by raising.

You're such a tease!!! Sat here waiting now...

And about this. I've heard a lot about playing an exploitable game is profitable up to xnl (x being anything from 50 - 200!). When have I got to start thinking about balance in your opinion? Certainly I notice some players at 10nl playing a very exploitable game, but being huge winners (unless I'm at their table ).

Right, that's what I figure. So in that case they're almost as vulnerable to pressure as the SB and BB with their random hands. Almost. OK I'll go read. Cheers.

Well any reg at 10NL probably knows this tactic. If they identify the fact you're doing it (i.e always raising the button to iso) they might start 3betting light in the blinds which you can never call. Maybe i'm giving 10NL too much credit to be fair but you get the jist. As you move up people will start 3bing a lot lighter

Agreed, and imo it happens at 10nl for sure. I've seen a few doing it. I guess it just becomes more and more frequent as you move up, rather than it just starting all of a sudden.

Once I have enough hands on villain I tend to play accordingly, simple as. Exploitable play vs the weak, and tone it down once a thinking player has position/is in the pot.

if u have desent hand that can improve you should rasie the limpers and call a medium rerasie if some one did it but i wouldnt call a rerasie to this hands AJ A10 A9 KQ KJ K10 as this hand is can be very dominated by other hands and it would be very hard to improve and with the bad flop it can cost you more chips

but in general middel postion suited ace you or made hand like a pair you should punsih the limpers and it will give you more imformatiom

Thanks for the links jbbb, I've read them through once, but I'm going to have to read them again before they've made it into me noggin.

If I'm in middle position and UTG limped I just open my normal range but with a slightly bigger bet (+1bb/limper style). What I was talking about was could I open up even wider in this situation (more from the CO/BTN though) in order specifically to iso the limper and either get folds PF or get called by the limper who folds to my cbet post flop.

I think personally (given no specific reads) I would stick to my MP range and raise it up normally rather than widening my range specifically to iso the limper, because with most of the table still to act I could end up in a sticky situation. From the CO and BTN though... it might be worth it with all that deadish money on the table.

Think you're dead on there, i open my ranges a bit to isolate. I used to think you would have to tighten your range to isolate limpers but after reading the COTW on isolating limpers by Kurt, i really started getting better at isolating them.

Limpers are just looking to broaden their luck-aspect. They like to win the flop and keep it...

Thanks for the links, these are a great read and perfect for a player like me.

Hey, this is great!
I have been trying to evolve my game towards attacking other players rather than just playing my own two cards.

So, today I have been attacking limpers, and have these questions:

Since I am playing 2NL, it seems to me that when I raise against a limper and I am in MP or better, very often it happens that either
- the button or blinds go over-the-top on me
- button or blinds, several players call my raise and we have a 3-way or 4-way on the flop

Do you agree that this will happen more often on 2NL and should I refer from attacking these mid-position limpers?

Yep that happens quite a lot. Problem is that you don't know if they have a rag ace or pocket aces or 32s since they will limp with any hand often call raises.

Use that. If you have a strong hand, raise them hard. If they re-raise they have a monster unless they are crazy LAGs, you never know what they have. On the other hand, if you have a spec hand like suited connectors or gap connectors or even AXs, limp in from CO or BT and see the flop cheap.

I wouldn't recommend limping here but rather raise to isolate and probably take any flop down with a cbet - even if we don't hit.

Good point. I have to try that.

IMO if you suspect that you'll be getting 3 or 4 way pots because the table is super loose, then you need to tighten up, and 'attack' with a stronger range.

Exactly, right, I should adjust my range a little bit towards the range I had for raising before I saw this thread. Thanks

Just tried it and I have to say it worked like a charm.

woop woop. never limp, pokers easy right!

I don't see how being in position has much to do with it, but yeah, pretty much.

Limpers suck, take their money. /thread