Limit ring game players please help!!!

Hi all.

I`m playing a lot of O8, mainly MTT, but I was tempted to play limit ring games by Stars recently.

I seem to have a problem with laying down a hand when playing limit ring games, but I do well playing MTT - bizzare!!!

I actualy find myself playing more loose in ring games than MTT. I think it is becuase when playing MTT`s I find I have a definate `goal` i.e. to win the tourny.

Playing ring games I think I am effected by how long to play.

When playing ring games what is your aim with your hand?

Is it to build it to the nuts and that is about it? I don`t want to make it sound that simple, and I know about drawing odds, so I take that into account.

Also, don`t bother to bluff???

I had a guy today acting before me. I knew he was just hanging on to the pot, but I had very little. I had bet every street and he had called. The community cards were something like 10dJd2hQd7c - he called me all the way with pair of 7`s (having said that, I had a pair of 2`s - I was repping the flush or straight.)

This happened on a few occassions with different guys. Any ideas please???

I think, as I said earlier, I have a definate goal in a MTT - u lose your chips and u r out.

Ring games, u lose your chips and u reload.

The best answer would be keep away from ring games, but I think if I got some advice I would do well.

Thoughts please???

Bizarre is right. But makes sense looking at the way you see it, which is the wrong way to look at it IMHO. When you reload, what are you reloading with??? Your own money! My 'aim' is to win every hand I am in. Not every hand dealt obviously. But this is my goal regardless of time constraints. I've sat down in Omaha ring games to kill time before a tournamant, or just 'because'. But unlike you, I look at losses in ring games as being something that cannot be recouped. You take your lickin', learn, and keep on tickin'.

People make a huge distinction between ring & MTT, but as far as I'm concerned, the differences are minor with regards to the hands I play, and how I play them. I concentrate more on the elements that are critical to both (knowing your opponents, cards themselves, position, etc). If you take care of these in an intelligent way, the winning will take care of itself, regardless of MTT vs ring game.

Your goal should just be to make profitable decisions. That might be folding, calling, bluffing, whatever. And yes, you should be going to showdown with many more marginal hands in ring games. High variance plays should generally be avoided in a tournament, but in a ring game they can be your bread & butter.

Its rare that I ever make a stone cold bluff when playing stud or stud 8. However, I semi-bluff like its my job

Yeah, "what is your aim with your hand?" is a weird question.

Umm this is a pretty bad way of thinking, unless you would call profitably folding a hand a 'win'. If your aim is to win every hand that you are in then once you have entered a hand you would never fold.

Basically, what c9thingy said is right. Our aim should simply be to make the most profitable decisions possible.

I'm not a limit expert, but bluffing an unknown in LHE is generally a bad idea.

Obviously it's hard to comment without the actual HH but firing three barrels here is weak - if he flopped a draw he's hit either the draw or a pair on the turn, if he's flopped or turned any sort of marginal hand he's not folding the blank river after calling the turn, if he has nothing he's (generally ) not calling the turn, so basically the vast majority of his range are hands that (a) beat you and (b) he's not folding.

[quote=Dorkus Malorkus;1002284]Yeah, "what is your aim with your hand?" is a weird question.



Umm this is a pretty bad way of thinking, unless you would call profitably folding a hand a 'win'. If your aim is to win every hand that you are in then once you have entered a hand you would never fold.

Basically, what c9thingy said is right. Our aim should simply be to make the most profitable decisions possible.
quote]
My response to that was question was directed at the difference between MTT & ring game. The 'premise' you inferred by my comment is completely false. While my aim is to win the hand (vs. in an MTT (possibly!??!?), that is certainly not to say you stay in a hand to the bitter end. And while it's it's nice to win every hand you're in, it is simply meant to indicate that you're selective about the hands you call in the first place. I tend to have a high % rate of winning the hands I see to the river, like over 70%.

After redreading, again, agreed that what you agreed with c9h is correct. You must still make profitable decisions. All I meant is that the decision I make to stay in and pursue a hand does not mean I will drag it out after the turn & river if I don't feel I've won. This is all part of Omaha. The best hands can be broken quickly or they can maintain, or even get better. All I'm trying to say is that (not only am I conservative, but) I don't see the bottom line 'aim' in most hands to be much different from MTT than ring game.

Chris Ferguson even agrees here. From his Pro Tips #15 on FT, he says: "Last week I talked about not adjusting for tournament play, answered three specific tournament questions, and stressed that there is little difference between tournament strategy and ring game strategy." (for some reason, that previous tip mentioned is no longer archived)

Here's some tips on O8 from Jennifer Harmon:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/JenniferHarman/43

I started playing limit games in '69 when the nl holdem tables were sitting empty. I still prefer limit games, stud mostly. Online, O and O8 (especially low buy-ins) have way too many maniacs, imo. Limit, MTT or ring, is about grinding it out. In NL, one decision or play often determines a winner. In limit, there are decisions to be made on every street.

The only real difference I find in regards to 'time' that OP mentioned is whether you intend to commit to the length an MTT will stretch to, or a ring where you only have the next 30 minutes free to play.

Thanks, Nick! To be honest, I am completely unread when it comes to many things, the diff between MTT & ring games being one of them, particularly (if it at all???) pertains to Omaha, FL, HL or otherwise. Was making comments by the seat of my pants. And although I've played a lot of (micro-stakes) ring games, mostly at UB, MOST of my experience comes from (and I hope this doesn;t sound like bragging) the many (??) final finishes in freerolls, like when it comes down to the final 1 - 20% at a freeroll perhaps at PS. Maybe anyone can so this if they really WANT to, I don't know. lol

I think it also depends on the stakes youre playing. I've had success at O8 at micro stakes playing the most straight forward poker possible. If you are playing at the micro stakes, I wouldnt bluff at all. I would simply value bet as much as possible and reraise at every street with the proper drawing and made hands.

Yep, agree 100% here.

Thanks for your input guys.

I know this might sound stupid, but my results have changed in the last few days because (still O8)

1) My ring game hand selection is tighter
2) I`m not chasing a lost cause.
3) I`m thinking before I do anything (like DM said - he was never folding so why try to push him out of the pot?)

Sometimes going `back to basics` is the way to go

This is your main edge on your opponents in LO8, so its hard to fault any move to tighten up.