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  Poker - A lesson on position.
 
  #1  
26-08-2008, 5:59 PM
white_lytning
Aspiring Member
 
Location: FL
Plays at: Pokerstars
Likes: Holdem/PLO
Posts: 82
A lesson on position.

Yesterday sitting 2/5 nl in a short stacked game. I had just arrived, and this hand was probably the 15th to 20th hand I had seen. On a table that liked to see flops but was reasonably tight. I had about $240 and was sitting under the gun. Enemy is sitting 4 seats behind me.

I have AJ off suit, and call $5. Four other calls and the BB makes it $10. All other 4 people from before call the $10 including myself.

Flop comes J, 6, 4 rainbow (suites don't matter for this hand). The blinds check, I bet out for $35. Fold, Fold, then it gets to the enemy. He asks the dealer how many chips I have left, I have about $50 more than him. He doubles the bet to $70. Everyone folds, I think for a second and make the call.

Turn is a 10.

I check, Enemy bets $75. Now I go into thinking. My usual line of thinking starts with a review of how the enemy has played the hand. Call, Call, Raise, Bet from late position. Then I go into what hands he can have, and which of those I can beat.

Smooth calling pre flop is a pretty standard move with low pocket pairs. I don't put him on over cards because he let a lot of people see the flop after having two chances to raise it. The same hand is a possibility, so is a pocket pair that missed the flop. This player is relatively unkown to me and I'm not sure what to do.

He is playing with his cards and fidgeting as I think. I flip over my Jack and say is it good? He immediately stops moving his hand that was playing with the cards (not a good sign). I find when people have a made hand they do as much as possible not to scare their oppenent, this means sitting still sometimes. Then I show the ace, and say "what should I do?". He doesn't comment and just stares ahead at the pot.

I end up folding because I put him on trips the way he reacted to seeing my hand, and the way he was raising me. I was out of position, and would have been facing an all in bet on the river. I Can't really improve at this point. As soon as I fold, he stands up and throws his A J face up on the table.

I say "thank you for showing the hand". Then review it again. He made a good play against me and it was all because of his position. An example like this shows how important seeing your openent act is. He got to put so much pressure on me, that I had to fear his action behind me. Its the edge in determining winning percentages of similar hands, like in this case. If I had position on him, it would have been a completely different hand, and I would have put incredible pressure on him, much the way he did it to me.

(He also said when he first saw my jack he thought he had me beat, so my original read on his fidgeting tell was correct. For those that don't know, in a cash game when its heads up you can continue playing after you expose your cards, can be helpful for getting some information)
 

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  #2  
26-08-2008, 9:11 PM
zachvac
Tenbob Curse Victim
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
Plays at: Pokerstars
Likes: NL Hold 'em
Posts: 5,763
1. Reason for limping AJ UTG?
2. Why the hell would you ever show your hand when not facing an all-in? If you didn't fold, what would you do? You push all-in and literally only get calls from better and folds from worse. Are you going to flat and then get into a mind game if he shoves wondering if he'd shove because he sees you're weak or has the goods? I've done this before, but it's always when facing an all-in, not when there's still money behind.
  #3  
27-08-2008, 12:40 AM
nyy4life42
New Member
 
Posts: 12
The concept of position is underrated by players who do not fully understand it.
  #4  
27-08-2008, 12:48 AM
CAPT. ZIGZAG
CardsChat Elite
 
Location: Surf City
Plays at: Pokerstars
Likes: Stud8
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by white_lytning
For those that don't know, in a cash game when its heads up you can continue playing after you expose your cards, can be helpful for getting some information)
Only if you're heads up. Otherwise your hand will be folded.

Oh, and ahhh..... what help did you get from that?


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  #5  
27-08-2008, 12:58 AM
jamesdadeliverer
CardsChat Regular
 
Location: Chicago
Plays at: Stars
Likes: HORSE & Razz
Posts: 490
re: A lesson on position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
1. Reason for limping AJ UTG?
2. Why the hell would you ever show your hand when not facing an all-in? If you didn't fold, what would you do? You push all-in and literally only get calls from better and folds from worse. Are you going to flat and then get into a mind game if he shoves wondering if he'd shove because he sees you're weak or has the goods? I've done this before, but it's always when facing an all-in, not when there's still money behind.
Agree with both of these completely, I'm guessing that you are overvaluing your AJ in early position. Obviously showing your cards is totally ridiculous because if you think you have him beat, you have to trust your read and push all in; otherwise, you would fold. So showing your cards loses you more than it wins you.

nyy4life42 is right, but it's a pretty pointless post.
  #6  
27-08-2008, 6:31 AM
aliengenius
Putting the AG in LAG
 
Location: Buffalo NY
Plays at: CC LB games
Likes: pin-up girls
Posts: 4,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
1. Reason for limping AJ UTG?
2. Why the hell would you ever show your hand when not facing an all-in? If you didn't fold, what would you do? You push all-in and literally only get calls from better and folds from worse. Are you going to flat and then get into a mind game if he shoves wondering if he'd shove because he sees you're weak or has the goods? I've done this before, but it's always when facing an all-in, not when there's still money behind.


zv.JPG
 



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