I'm a losing player, help me become a winning one

Hi CC,

I'm a losing player, right, that's out of the way. I suppose it's not a shocking statement, but I don't think many admit it.

I've been playing online for maybe 2 years now for fun, and recently decided I was going to give it a real go. After a couple deposits of $50 each in the past, I decided to take advantage of FullTillt's first deposit bonus and deposited $600. I withdrew $300 almost immediately to leave me with a decent bankroll for 10nl, a good bonus and rakeback. Surely enough to keep me afloat while I put some hands in and learned the game properly. Apparently not.

I've invested $400 into poker, not a large but still significant amount for a 19 year old with a summer job before university. I'm left with $70 with about $20 in rakeback to come on Friday and a serious question mark over this poker thing. I suck really bad.

I'm not a complete idiot, I've been sweated once before by C9, and while there were plenty of improvements to be made, the basics of being tight, stealing and c-betting were there, though often I wasn't thinking why. More recently I've studied c-betting on different flop types, 3-betting and calling IP. I have lots of ideas, and I try to put them in to practice, I just lose money.

What would I say my main leak is? I spew post-flop. I win the small and medium pots and seem to lose the big ones. My blue line isn't pretty looking and my red line doesn't cover it. I also only think half as much as I should during a hand as I can after it.

So what was the point of all of this? Well CC, I come for help. I've thought about it and I need lots of it. I need help to learn how to think about poker, how to build my game from the ground up. How to improve and progress and I'm serious about it.

I'm about to lose my summer job in 2 weeks (it was always temporary) and I've got 3 months of free time before university starts. I know I could get a job, but I'm financially sound untill then and I'm also spending a month in Gran Canaria with my gf and her family. I have a lot of free time available and the willingness to learn and commit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a pro, but I want to enjoy the game I love again. Once you take something seriously, consistently losing takes all of the fun out of it, and trust me that's something I'm good at doing:

http://www.pokertableratings.com/ful...rch/gone+goose

The reason I've lost more than I've deposited is rakeback and a $300 donkament second place.

My goal in the next 3 months is to beat 25/50nl, or begin to. My ultimate goal is to beat 100nl solidly. Maybe it will help me through uni and then provide a little extra once I get a full time job.

So how can I do this? Well there are a few things I'd like to get from this thread.

I hope the least I get is some advice, maybe a few sweat sessions. Hopefully advice on what I need to do, where to go next and what I need to fix, how to learn to think about poker properly.

The best possible outcome, though an unlikely one, is a coach/mentor. Now I know as a jobless losing micro player, I can't offer financial incentives in the form of cash or % of winnings to a player good enough to turn me into a winning player. But I can try one thing. I could offer to give a % of my winnings to charity. I don't know what would be a fair amount that would also allow me to build my bankroll but I'm more than willing to offer, especially for coaching from one of the better players on the forum. I'm willing to deposit once more for about $200-$300 if I need to, but if I can't win after that, I'm giving up on depositing for a long time.

I also think that it could be good for those thinking about future coaching or video making. Maybe a series on how to turn yourself into a winning player. It could also be good for Cardschat. I'd definately be willing to write a blog on my progress or provide a glowing reference after.

Maybe someone will take pity on me, maybe someone will see a challenge in me and maybe someone will feel they can do some good by turning me into a winning player, who knows, it's worth a try.

That's that CC, thanks for reading if you did, I'm ready and waiting for whatever you give me.

Thanks.

To be entirely honest I was in the same boat as you except I lost more because I didnt know when to stop. I really enjoyed playing but I obviously couldnt keep losing the way I was. I was playing in stakes over my head and had to take a step back. For the summer between highschool and college I couldnt find a job and didnt have any more money to waste on poker. I signed up for every poker site I could find, which is quite unfortunate because I didnt take advantage of any deals and would play in their freerolls every day. I signed up for sportsbook, players only, pokerstars, bodog, full tilt, pitbull, just about anything I could play in the US. After a summer of reading a lot about poker and then actually trying it out in freerolls it really helped. HUGE number of donks in the freerolls but as you get farther you encounter better players. Once you're comfortable there you can move into microstakes. If you've been practicing and reading consistently you shouldn't have a problem. Read the books by the experts, not just these forums. Some good recommendations for books can be found in other threads. Hope that helps.

1st thing to do is move down. According to PTR you're still playing a mix of 10nl and 5nl. With a ~$90 BR 10nl should def. be out (especially as a losing player).

You're a 6-max player so I can offer no real help (hell if you played FR I probably couldn't really help but I'd try) but I like your thread and the way you're putting yourself out there. I'm sure you'll get lots of offers.

If you use PT3/HEM posting your stats might be a good place to start.

gl

pm me your AIM name if you'd like to chat for a while, I think I can offer some suggestions.

Chillax, move down, take it easy, enjoy the summer, don't be so serious its too mysterious .

I mean u sound too wound up and into things, take it easy.

And don't talk about poker and your job in the same place. They are separate. Poker is a pastime until you write a book.

Hillbilly is right-you need to move down so when you lose a big pot it doesn't hurt you so much. You might want to think about moving to 9 player table-action slows down with more players at the table. Sounds like you need to review some of your hands and find out which ones you're having trouble letting go-are you chasing too much? You might just be experiencing a downturn,but there is always so much to learn. Take some time and read the plethora of info here at CC-put on a pot of coffee and start searching. Good luck and keep us posted.

1: Play tighter. My guess is you already try to play TAG, I'm making this assumption just because most people try to play tight, but drop your VPIP by a few %, and trim those % away from your early and mid position ranges.
2: Move down. I personally recorded a better BB/100 at 2nl than 5nl and it continued dropping past that point, if you're losing, lower stakes will make a big difference.
3: When in doubt post-flop, fold.

Looking at your PTR you play pre-flop and the flop well.You appear to be too aggressive on the turn and river maybe you should give your opponents more credit for having a hand.

Also you are playing beyond your bankroll, checkout this at FTP Academy

http://academy.fulltiltpoker.com/les...oll-management

Best of luck.

Thanks a lot guys. Moving down is definitely on obvious move, it's just so hard when you deposit to get out of 2nl and you're back there in a couple weeks. It has to be done though.

Don't worry I'm not taking it too seriously. I'm not gonna be living on the streets because I lost at poker, I just want to win, I always have at everything I've done. I also feel that the game is beatable for most people who put the effort in, that's what I want to do.

I only mentioned my job and poker in the same post just to say that I don't have one right now, well soon I wont anyway, and to indicate how much free time I have. Don't worry, I don't plan on using it for income any time soon and I don't need to.

Thanks again guys.

Some stats for your enjoyment. All the hands since I deposited to grind 10nl. Basically went 10nl, down to about $150 I think then I decided to take 2 buy-ins at 25nl, lost a $100 pot (lol) moved down to 10nl. Then the last hands have been at 5nl. I definitely need to be more disciplined in moving down, I hold on way too long.



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Thought from looking at PTR your sample was larger than that.

Yeah it is, something like 70k, but these are my most recent since my last deposit. I suppose I can put them all on there if you'd like to take a look?

Well, it's not like you just recently started losing right? I think the entire sample is relevant.

All the stats I have on my pc, there might be around 10k on my laptop but this pretty much it it.



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How about posting a breakdown of 10nl by position.

10nl by position. I'm not sure how it will affect it but the past 10k hands ish I've changed my play dramatically. Like I said in the original post, changed the way I 3-bet and calling with strong hands in position more. Meh might mean nothing.



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Ok that looks like a big leak, wtf is happening in the blinds??

well you steal too much from the Sb and then cbet too much after stealing!

A SB steal is not like a BTN steal you dont have position postflop.

When you miss.. give up.

People

1. Know you are stealing
2. Dont call exeptionally light

so when they call they usually have a better hand than you and they realise this so when you bet they don't fold.

Your also too tight from the BB

Literally you are betting weak hands from the SB in a hope that people fold, and when they dont you are happy to c-bet OOP even though they are ublikely to fold.

However when in the BB where you have position, you play tighter range than you would from the SB OOP!

Yeah, you're losing more money in both blinds than you would be if you folded every time. That seems like a leak!

At FR normal bb/100 numbers for those positions would be less than half of what you're showing. I think we've discovered something that needs some work.

Yes! We've found something and that didn't seem too difficult. 55bb/100 man that's awful. At least I have something to work on like you said WV. First thing on my list, look at how and what I'm playing in the SB/BB and look at pokerstove to determine some ranges. Go go go.

Other than that 8/11/12bb at those positons for 10nl don't seem too bad. That's a little comforting.

Also does anyone know what is happening in early position?

If you fold every hand from the SB it's only a 25BB/100 loss so you can cut that in half by folding everything. Might be able to do better still if you play AA!

Edit: Nevermind you're displaying bb/100 not BB/100. It's 50bb/100 if you fold everything from the SB.

Yeah, being OOP sucks. Probably nothing too unusual.

meh

CO id be looking for over 20bb/100
BTN 40-60bb/100

I dont think you are using position as well as you could

6K is still a small sample so maybe there are a few coolers in there.

Although my feeling is that you just dont bet enough in position to make people fold and you dont fold yourself when people start betting into you.

You dont take pot control lines with AA!

That's a pretty big assumption lol. Maybe it's true.

Looking at calling 3-bets OOP. I've been stoving quite a bit and I can't hit on a range that would be proftable at all against a purely value 3-bet range, even "bad" 3-betters (JJ+,ATs+,KJs+,AJo+,KJo+). JJ/1010 is about 50/50 and JJ-TT,AQs-AJs,AQo is the same. Basically just don't bother?

Adding QQ tips it slightly in our favour. Not much though.

Just don't call 3bets OOP.

Easy game.

EDIT: We're folding JJ/1010?

Depends on who is 3betting, positions, stats, your image, etc. etc.

Most of the time yes

Why is your VPIP/PFR increasing as you've tried higher levels? Is that intentional, thinking that better opponents with fold more, or is it that those hands are more recent history and you've changed your game? Or is there no known reason? I'm asking this out of curiosity as much as anything.

He is playing 6max.
Folding JJ/TT most of the time to a 3bet with thouse hands at 6max would be a pretty big leak imo.