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#71
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Just wait for a set or better, and stack them. Even my dentist is more complex on me! (But I once bit him ) |
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#72
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i cant handle ringgames. if i win a few dollar, in the next moment i loose much more. ps: sorry my english isnt the best. mac° |
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#75
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I have been playing a lot of $10 tables and this IMO is the way to go if you wish to make money at them. |
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#76
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As a tourney player like myself, I wonder if you suffer from what afflicted me in my previous attempts to play ring which is to play the small pots well, but lose the big ones which make the difference, because of the massively different way that hands play for stacks in tournies as opposed to ring.
I've had quite a few goes at ring over the years and have failed despite feeling I should be winning. This time around I'm 7k hands in and doing well at 25NL. There's a lot of differences that have finally clicked but the biggest are around hands deep in stacks. The need to protect hands is far greater as well with check-raising having a role, but a different one. The hand above I hear what you are saying about the bad players, but it reads like a tourney hand where you are looking to trap for stacks. In ring I think this can give out reverse implied odds more easily as the stacks are much deeper. Won't read too much into one hand though as it's just one hand ![]() Re the tourney transition though for me this has been a huge change in many areas, I'm going to write something up soon comparing and contrasting the two forms, that may or may not be of use. |
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#77
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At these levels even when you beat them over the head with a shovel they still will follow you.
Case in point. PokerStars Game #15288807798: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/02/14 - 18:47:08 (ET) Table 'Halleria IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: Popowio ($14.35 in chips) Seat 2: petshuky ($4.80 in chips) Seat 3: black_cat777 ($21.05 in chips) Seat 4: klitkat ($10 in chips) Seat 5: blacksad777 ($7.70 in chips) Seat 6: kaolimi ($12.05 in chips) kaolimi: posts small blind $0.05 Popowio: posts big blind $0.10 klitkat: posts big blind $0.10 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to klitkat [Jc Qh] petshuky: folds black_cat777: calls $0.10 klitkat: raises $0.30 to $0.40 blacksad777: calls $0.40 kaolimi: folds Popowio: folds black_cat777: calls $0.30 *** FLOP *** [2c Qd Jd] black_cat777: checks klitkat: bets $0.40 blacksad777: raises $0.60 to $1 black_cat777: folds klitkat: raises $1.50 to $2.50 blacksad777: calls $1.50 *** TURN *** [2c Qd Jd] 6♥ klitkat: bets $7.10 and is all-in blacksad777: calls $4.80 and is all-in *** RIVER *** [2c Qd Jd 6h] 3♥ *** SHOW DOWN *** klitkat: shows [Jc Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks) blacksad777: mucks hand klitkat collected $15.20 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $15.95 | Rake $0.75 Board [2c Qd Jd 6h 3h] Seat 1: Popowio (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: petshuky folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: black_cat777 folded on the Flop Seat 4: klitkat showed [Jc Qh] and won ($15.20) with two pair, Queens and Jacks Seat 5: blacksad777 (button) mucked [Qs 7d] Seat 6: kaolimi (small blind) folded before Flop |
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#78
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#79
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This is slightly a bit results oriented, and surely you were unlucky, but I just don't like the all-in shove on the flop into a $1 pot. I'm really conservative with my BR, but I'd feel a bit better about it if you pre-flop raised or you were ahead enough in your BR that you can afford to have people suck-out on you for such large of an amount, when knowing they're bad players and will call with 9's and a gutshot on the flop, as well as the cards dealt during online play. I realize you're trying to gain as much in the amount of time you're playing and sometimes it's a breeze for people to rip through the micros easily, but baybe this all-in style with big pairs isn't working out for you at the moment. You might need to limit your risk until you can step your way up out of the negatives.(not counting the bonus) I would suggest trying the NL Cap games. These micros are brutal. I don't know about you, but when I'm getting hammered in the micro rings, and frankly I can't stand them most of the time, I see if I can get a quality SNG game going and string a few together. The less risk with a decent reward of the sng could aid your ring game for now. You did break TB's rule #7, but I don't believe you can ever say Never do this or Always do that in poker, as I often read in posts by Mr. ChuckTs. I think it was a good move, just really unlucky. Good luck in future play. ![]() Last edited by wsorbust : 15-02-2008 at 6:06 AM. |
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#81
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You are exactly right. Too many people here are used to playing higher limits and think they need to play a different game to win at 10NL. Sure, you should probably play slightly tighter, but it's still poker. Every time I hear someone say that they cant play at micro levels because too many people call, I just tell them that that is a good thing! You want one or two weaker hands to call you. And, BTW, it is possible to isolate against one other player at these levels. |
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#82
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Heres my simple strategy for $10NL:
1) Play 4 tables (or more) to maximise number of hands/hr, 2) Raise with big pockets, AK, AQ 3) Call reasonable raises with small/med pockets to try and hit a set 4) Occasionally limp on button or cutoff with a speculative hand, like a suited connecter, or QJ, or Ax suited 5) Aim for a set or better before getting real enthusiastic about your hand 6) Without a hand, continuation-bet and steal if you have position and one or two opponents who check to you, if you get called give up. Of course, the above is highly simplified, and the strategy for a particular situation may differ. But in general I stick roughly to it and it works for me. I make most money on the flopped sets where the opponent has a top pair or overpair. |
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#84
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I suggest wathcing some good players play some ring games. For example the statement that stoxtrader made was good : I don't mind folding the best hand sometimes if it ensures that I am profitable in the long run.
And remember that if you fold, you get two more cards next hand... |
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#86
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#88
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I am down $128.93 over all, that's 19,104 hands (3.38 bb/100). Anyway, I seem to be slowly grinding this back to even. |
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#89
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I think it's pointless trying. You can't look at is as merely beating the 10 cent donks. You are in fact playing with a handicap that doesn't exist at PokerStars, or just at the higher limits at Full Tilt. The plain truth is that given the same limit, and the same opponents at PokerStars, you will make more money, or lose less. So why subject yourself to it.
Move Up, or Move Out. |
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#90
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#91
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I could be wrong though, but I do know it's high and it's one of the reasons why I don't play $10NL at FT. |
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#92
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Here are the rake structures at PS and FT for .05/.10. PS is on the left. I got the caps wrong, but when your talking nickles and dimes, I don't see how it matters much. Virtually every pot will be fully raked. A 20$ pot at FT will cost you $2.00. The same pot at PS will be $1.00.
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#94
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#95
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![]() but perhaps I'm missing something that's fairly obvious to the vets... ![]() |
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#96
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Ahh.
By fully raked, I meant raked at the full 5 or 10 percent, not capped. At the higher limits, the cap has a way of softening the punch. When your at $100 table or higher, capped at $3 most rakes will be maxed out essentially lowering the rake to pot ratio to less than the full percentage. Not so at .05/.10. If the rake is 10%, that's what they take. |
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#98
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I know, don't bluff at $10NL, but I can't make reads at all? This guy was so out of line on every hand, this play should have worked (plus I have 10 outs twice, so it's really a semi-bluff).
FullTiltPoker Game #5475320272: Table Lonesome Cactus - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:52:30 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: dietrijn ($18.55) Seat 2: eDDyR55 ($2.20) Seat 3: happyglen ($1.90) Seat 4: PredFanRO ($3.65) Seat 5: aliengenius ($12.60) Seat 6: Matchbook14 ($5.15) Seat 7: Tank820 ($6.90) Seat 8: pigpants ($10.55) Seat 9: BeeBoSkleebies ($13.30) dietrijn posts the small blind of $0.05 eDDyR55 posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #9 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to aliengenius [Jh Th] happyglen folds PredFanRO folds aliengenius calls $0.10 Matchbook14 folds Tank820 folds pigpants folds BeeBoSkleebies raises to $0.45 dietrijn calls $0.40 eDDyR55 folds aliengenius calls $0.35 *** FLOP *** [7h 2h 8d] dietrijn checks aliengenius bets $1 BeeBoSkleebies raises to $4.45 dietrijn folds aliengenius raises to $12.15, and is all in BeeBoSkleebies calls $7.70 aliengenius shows [Jh Th] BeeBoSkleebies shows [9h Qh] *** TURN *** [7h 2h 8d] A♠ *** RIVER *** [7h 2h 8d As] A♣ aliengenius shows a pair of Aces BeeBoSkleebies shows a pair of Aces BeeBoSkleebies wins the pot ($23.75) with a pair of Aces aliengenius adds $10 *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $25.75 | Rake $2 Board: [7h 2h 8d As Ac] Seat 1: dietrijn (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 2: eDDyR55 (big blind) folded before the Flop Seat 3: happyglen didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: PredFanRO didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: aliengenius showed [Jh Th] and lost with a pair of Aces Seat 6: Matchbook14 didn't bet (folded) Seat 7: Tank820 didn't bet (folded) Seat 8: pigpants didn't bet (folded) Seat 9: BeeBoSkleebies (button) showed [9h Qh] and won ($23.75) with a pair of Aces |
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#99
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Ok, this guy just can't fold ATo, no pair, no draw, but what am I supposed to do, just check and give up on the hand? Position and aggression are meaningless at this level, it really is just the cards?
FullTiltPoker Game #5475184563: Table Invergordon - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:42:02 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: ll_RickRock_ll ($2.80) Seat 2: par547 ($18.25) Seat 3: Rivorus ($1.15) Seat 4: davred78 ($1.85) Seat 5: Zoozai ($3.50) Seat 6: aliengenius ($12.65) Seat 7: eDDyR55 ($2.10) Seat 8: rjvanwin ($9.40) Seat 9: DKBing ($2.15) eDDyR55 posts the small blind of $0.05 rjvanwin posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #6 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to aliengenius [Jd Qd] DKBing has 15 seconds left to act DKBing calls $0.10 ll_RickRock_ll calls $0.10 par547 folds Rivorus folds davred78 stands up davred78 folds Zoozai folds aliengenius raises to $0.55 eDDyR55 folds rjvanwin calls $0.45 DKBing folds ll_RickRock_ll calls $0.45 *** FLOP *** [5s 3h Ks] Gimmeabreakkk sits down Gimmeabreakkk adds $4 rjvanwin checks ll_RickRock_ll checks aliengenius bets $1 rjvanwin calls $1 ll_RickRock_ll adds $7.75 ll_RickRock_ll folds *** TURN *** [5s 3h Ks] 9♦ Zoozai stands up rjvanwin checks aliengenius bets $2.20 rjvanwin calls $2.20 *** RIVER *** [5s 3h Ks 9d] A♥ rjvanwin checks tuck537 sits down aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act aliengenius bets $5 rjvanwin calls $5 *** SHOW DOWN *** aliengenius shows [Jd Qd] Ace King high rjvanwin shows [As Ts] a pair of Aces rjvanwin wins the pot ($16.40) with a pair of Aces *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $18.20 | Rake $1.80 Board: [5s 3h Ks 9d Ah] Seat 1: ll_RickRock_ll folded on the Flop Seat 2: par547 didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: Rivorus didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: davred78 didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: Zoozai didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: aliengenius (button) showed [Jd Qd] and lost with Ace King high Seat 7: eDDyR55 (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 8: rjvanwin (big blind) showed [As Ts] and won ($16.40) with a pair of Aces Seat 9: DKBing folded before the Flop |
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#100
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tripp was shoving every single hand, I tried to re-isolate, but the guy wakes up with the MONSTER hand A8o !! Of course they both spike their eight.
FullTiltPoker Game #5472841218: Table Railbirds.com - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:47:55 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: trippddogg ($7.30) Seat 2: aliengenius ($12.85) Seat 3: luvs2poop ($8.35) Seat 4: kgyorgy22 ($4.90) Seat 6: William Rutt ($0.55) Seat 7: IM-the-M4N ($8.45) Seat 8: WildRide ($3.60) Seat 9: jbrfan ($3.40) kgyorgy22 posts the small blind of $0.05 William Rutt posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #3 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to aliengenius [6s 6d] IM-the-M4N has 15 seconds left to act IM-the-M4N folds WildRide folds jbrfan calls $0.10 trippddogg calls $0.10 aliengenius calls $0.10 luvs2poop folds kgyorgy22 folds William Rutt raises to $0.55, and is all in jbrfan calls $0.45 trippddogg raises to $2.35 aliengenius raises to $12.85, and is all in jbrfan folds trippddogg calls $4.95, and is all in aliengenius shows [6s 6d] William Rutt shows [Ah 8c] trippddogg shows [8d 5s] Uncalled bet of $5.55 returned to aliengenius *** FLOP *** [2s Th 8h] *** TURN *** [2s Th 8h] J♦ *** RIVER *** [2s Th 8h Jd] K♥ aliengenius shows a pair of Sixes trippddogg shows a pair of Eights trippddogg wins the side pot ($12.15) with a pair of Eights William Rutt shows a pair of Eights William Rutt wins the main pot ($2.05) with a pair of Eights *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $15.75 Main pot $2.25. Side pot $13.50. | Rake $1.55 Board: [2s Th 8h Jd Kh] Seat 1: trippddogg showed [8d 5s] and won ($12.15) with a pair of Eights Seat 2: aliengenius showed [6s 6d] and lost with a pair of Sixes Seat 3: luvs2poop (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: kgyorgy22 (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 6: William Rutt (big blind) showed [Ah 8c] and won ($2.05) with a pair of Eights Seat 7: IM-the-M4N didn't bet (folded) Seat 8: WildRide didn't bet (folded) Seat 9: jbrfan folded before the Flop |
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#101
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Not to say there wasn't some horrible play by me as well:
FullTiltPoker Game #5476571680: Table Sunrise Skyline - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:28:21 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: drweinfish ($4.05) Seat 2: KleinAndreiii ($1.95) Seat 3: DDuece ($2.90) Seat 4: prorpm119 ($6.75) Seat 5: frishy32 ($3.30) Seat 6: aliengenius ($9.90) Seat 7: nightaday ($12.30) Seat 8: Cowboywillie ($4.15) Seat 9: schlaffi66 ($18.55) frishy32 posts the small blind of $0.05 aliengenius posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #4 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to aliengenius [7h 7c] nightaday folds Cowboywillie calls $0.10 schlaffi66 raises to $0.45 drweinfish is sitting out drweinfish folds KleinAndreiii folds DDuece folds prorpm119 has 15 seconds left to act prorpm119 folds frishy32 folds aliengenius calls $0.35 Cowboywillie calls $0.35 *** FLOP *** [9d 2d 5d] aliengenius checks Cowboywillie checks schlaffi66 bets $0.30 aliengenius raises to $1 Cowboywillie calls $1 schlaffi66 calls $0.70 *** TURN *** [9d 2d 5d] K♣ aliengenius checks Cowboywillie bets $1.70 schlaffi66 folds aliengenius raises to $8.45, and is all in Cowboywillie calls $1, and is all in aliengenius shows [7h 7c] Cowboywillie shows [Kd Qd] Uncalled bet of $5.75 returned to aliengenius *** RIVER *** [9d 2d 5d Kc] 3♠ aliengenius shows a pair of Sevens Cowboywillie shows a flush, King high Cowboywillie wins the pot ($8.85) with a flush, King high aliengenius adds $4.25 *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $9.80 | Rake $0.95 Board: [9d 2d 5d Kc 3s] Seat 1: drweinfish didn't bet (folded) Seat 2: KleinAndreiii didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: DDuece didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: prorpm119 (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: frishy32 (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 6: aliengenius (big blind) showed [7h 7c] and lost with a pair of Sevens Seat 7: nightaday didn't bet (folded) Seat 8: Cowboywillie showed [Kd Qd] and won ($8.85) with a flush, King high Seat 9: schlaffi66 folded on the Turn |
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#102
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A bit of a cooler, I guess. I have actually been trying to consciously trying to value bet rivers a bit more, lol:
FullTiltPoker Game #5475091239: Table Abercorn - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:34:52 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: Manxome ($10) Seat 2: NHMF ($0.60) Seat 3: drtiehead ($8.80) Seat 4: JaviRecaudador ($1.80) Seat 5: pocketfish007 ($10.05) Seat 6: verleihenix ($9.90) Seat 7: suepil53 ($4.20) Seat 8: aliengenius ($10) Seat 9: DrSpald ($7.50) drtiehead posts the small blind of $0.05 JaviRecaudador posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to aliengenius [9d Ad] pocketfish007 has 15 seconds left to act pocketfish007 folds verleihenix has 15 seconds left to act verleihenix calls $0.10 suepil53 calls $0.10 aliengenius calls $0.10 DrSpald folds Manxome folds NHMF folds drtiehead calls $0.05 JaviRecaudador has 15 seconds left to act JaviRecaudador checks *** FLOP *** [5s 6d As] drtiehead checks JaviRecaudador checks verleihenix checks suepil53 checks aliengenius checks *** TURN *** [5s 6d As] Q♦ drtiehead checks JaviRecaudador checks verleihenix bets $0.30 suepil53 calls $0.30 aliengenius raises to $1.70 drtiehead folds JaviRecaudador has 15 seconds left to act JaviRecaudador folds verleihenix calls $1.40 suepil53 has 15 seconds left to act suepil53 folds *** RIVER *** [5s 6d As Qd] 7♥ verleihenix checks aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act aliengenius bets $4.20 verleihenix calls $4.20 *** SHOW DOWN *** aliengenius shows [9d Ad] a pair of Aces verleihenix shows [Ah 6h] two pair, Aces and Sixes verleihenix wins the pot ($11.35) with two pair, Aces and Sixes *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $12.60 | Rake $1.25 Board: [5s 6d As Qd 7h] Seat 1: Manxome didn't bet (folded) Seat 2: NHMF (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: drtiehead (small blind) folded on the Turn Seat 4: JaviRecaudador (big blind) folded on the Turn Seat 5: pocketfish007 didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: verleihenix showed [Ah 6h] and won ($11.35) with two pair, Aces and Sixes Seat 7: suepil53 folded on the Turn Seat 8: aliengenius showed [9d Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces Seat 9: DrSpald didn't bet (folded) |
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#103
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I try a little play on the flop, hoping maybe it will get me a free river card as well, oops. FullTiltPoker Game #5475794933: Table La Jolla - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:28:58 ET - 2008/03/02 Seat 1: Stylopora ($4.85) Seat 2: 50IFGAIAVIL ($18.50) Seat 3: sucat ($2.80) Seat 4: aliengenius ($13.95) Seat 5: Billy58 ($0), is sitting out Seat 6: graing18 ($3.85) Seat 7: Latko28 ($3.45) Seat 8: danks420 ($9.65) Seat 9: mrkmcf ($2.90) danks420 posts the small blind of $0.05 mrkmcf posts the big blind of |