How to win at home games?

Ok guys me and about, 4-6 other friends get together on saturdays and play holdem.

We are going to try a sit n go this weekend, but usually we play a cash game for about 3 hours.

Set Up:

Cash Game, $10 buy in, which gets you $20 worth in chips

blinds are .25/50

Most of my friends are limpers, in fact pretty much every hand, EVERYONE limps in for $.50 cents.

I have had some ups and downs (probably down $20 bucks overall, started playing in Augaust)

Since then, I have done a lot of research, such as learning the TAG style, and how to bet 3X the BB pre-flop.

Lately I have been doing better, it is just that, I seem to get sucked out on alot.

I usually bet 3X the BB ($1.50) preflop, and EVERYONE gets pissed. They all want to see a "free flop." Usually at least 2 people call me.

How do you guys think I should play against this type of table?

Thanks, and I'm sorry for the long post

JDAWG, in situations like these its best to make it more before the flop considering a)everyone seems to be calling your 3x and b)by increasing the size of your raise before the flop you are limiting the amount of callers and therefore isolating your opponents with a strong hand. As a rule of thumb, for every limper, add 1 BB to your 3x raising, so if theres 4 limpers, make it 7xBB before the flop!

OOOOOOOOO

This makes a lot more sense!

I will punish the limpers! lol

Thanks for the tip

but couldnt you also play aggressive after flop. And every one in a while you need to showing them that you have caught. that will buy you lots of pots. I usually 3x on any flop of a pair. limpers will fold.

I also read that your supposed to bet 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot after the flop comes down.


Is this correct?

Your set-up sounds odd. You only start with 40BB each, which means you are all short-stacking.

IMO a better set-up would be to play $10 buy, with $10 worth of chips and blinds of 5c/10c, meaning you all start with 100BB.

3x what? You're betting out 3xPot or 3xBB? Either one is a terrible idea in any kind of a raised pot because you're either putting way too much money in or nothing at all. Better bet sizes vary between 1/2 pot and pot are better for control depending on board texture and your hand obviously.

You read my mind, you guys are buying in too low, this is going to make your game last much shorter or create more rebuys. Either keep your structure but buy-in for $50 or drop the blinds like micro said.


Also, to OP, it sounds like your friends really don't know poker at all. If they are bitching about a raise preflop, keep at it. Poker isn't for pussies and raising is part of the game. Not everyone is meant to see the flops. If it starts coming down to that everyone will start calling those raises(probably not if you're still only playing with $10), then start tightening up. Sounds like they're playing damn near ATC, so make them pay for it. Play only cards that work well postflop(and the obvious monsters) and try to learn how to play position. Being in position against bad players will make you more money regardless of what your cards are because you have the advantage of seeing how they react to the flop/turn/river(mostly it won't even get past the flop).

sounds like you should be cleaning up ... those type of players (calling stations) are easy money ... just play premium hands and only ONLY bluff on the river b/c they are not going to fold if they think they can make any kind of a hand ... they want to see cards

Wrong, you do not want to try to bluff calling stations on any street because they will call many times even with medium pairs. So your bluffs on busted draws and high cards are better off just checking back.

The set up that you mentioned is exactly what I want to change our game to.

My friends are like "OMG I am used to the current system, WAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAA! Jdawg is just trying to change the system so he can win!"

It's very frustrating, and I tried to explain it to them, but its just doesn't work.

True statement lol!!!

I just need to keep improving my game, into a solid, tight-aggressive player, then I should start to clean up.

Just tell them you want to try it your way 1 time and if they don't like it better they can always go back to the old way.

Yea, I will for sure.

Actually tomorrow we are doing my idea of a sit and go (I have another thread on this)

And we are doing exactly what you posted lol.

I took notes and showed it to all of my friends in school.

I am sure it will be awesome, I just hope the guys who get knocked out early don't get too mad, but then again we are going to have 2 tourneys in the same night, so they have that to look forward too.

that's not totally been my experience they will call with mid, low pair for for sure on flop and turn, b/c they think they can make trips, but once they get to the river many will de-value their small pair and will fold to a stone cold bluff of the right amount, but bottom line is you don't have to bluff at all to win money vs. true calling stations ... just bet for value and control the size of pots

Something to think about is if you want to have a cash table that runs between tourneys as people bust out. You're group is small so it may not be practical but if it's something you want to do you should have a different set of chips for the cash table vs the tournaments.

He only has 5 players. There is no side cash game. At best you have a crib board or xbox. Some times we have an eliminated player as a dealer to speed it up and gives them something to do.

Do you tip him?

I was joking bud, lol

I thought it was a legit question. cause at times I am in a 18 person house game 600 in the buyins. That may create a tip situation

One side point: is it worth ticking off your friends repeatedly to win a few bucks? In a game with so little at stake, I'm not sure raising $1 is worth their ire.

So should I just slow play every premium hand, and get sucked out on?

(not trying to sound like an ***, just wondering)

Here's an idea for you--allow people in your cash game to buy in for more if they want to. So probably your friends will still buy in for just $10 but you can buy in for $20 or $25. At first it makes no difference, because the effective stack is still $10, but as your buddies win and lose money, a few of them will get deeper, so when you play against the deep stacks, you can actually play some poker after the flop. You seem to be studying the game, so as you learn more, the deeper stacks should favor you. For example, when you have top-pair on the flop, you can bet big (say 3/4 of the pot) on the flop and turn, and perhaps get it all in on the river--against your calling-station friends, that's your ticket to profit.

You may have to tell your friends that you are willing to buy in for more, "even though that puts you at risk of losing more money," for the good of the game(!). If they say it gives you an advantage to buy in for more, then... find some new friends.

I might raise way bigger for my premiums and tell everyone I was doing them a favor... "hey guys, I might as well just take the few bucks in the pot now" kind of thing. Then show them your AA or KK. Keeping the game friendly is worth it to me.

That is a dumb statement right there. If that's your point, then why not fold all of your made hands when your friend is betting into you? Because if he has a good, worse hand than yours, he won't be happy, and God forbid you irritate anyone... Why shoot a 3 playing BB one on one vs a friend, why go for the 2 point conversion when playing a friend in Madden, why(whatever other analogy you want)? Because you are looking to win!!! I don't play poker for money to evenly go around the table and go home with the exact same amount at the end of the night as I came with, if I wanted that, I would have our home game be Go Fish or Shoots and Ladders.

Damn straight

to keep this topic going, what about a home game that is more mixed. Say a few leaky fishy type players and a LAG player(with knowledge of the game). Keeping the structure the same, what are your strategies for combating this type of table dynamic. The fish at the table range from clueless to capable of making lay downs and keeping what they might consider a range even though its still very very wide. The LAG likes to raise a very very wide range of hands which makes putting him on a defined range tough. With the terrible short stack setup it makes it tough to combat these table dynamics without flopping a big hand.

Wait for your hand, and then take all of their money.

Check-raising for an example will usually work if they love to bet.

I can see playing a total fish that way, as bluffing is hardly ever productive. But that seems a little passive when your home game has some fairly competent lag players. The short stack setup changes most strategies when playing against certain player types. These LAG players, i feel, are just as important to attack as the moderate fish since the lag player is going to build pots with a range that includes a lot of bluffs. So your cards are not as important. Whereas the average fish (in this case i mean a fish that draws up some range, not a complete spew) takes a hand to beat, albeit TPGK is often good enough. ok i think i am ranting a lot of nonsense by now, probably completely wrong in my thinking.....

Im just trying to stir up some other thoughts as no 2 home games are alike.

Just because everyone is playing loose, doesn't mean you have to be loose. Wait for your cards, defend your blinds, and you will succeed.

In fact if everyone is playing loose you should play tight. Doing the opposite of the rest of the table is generally the best way to make money.