How to start multi tabling sessions

Talking about 4 tables, all I can do so far. My question is...do you open 1 or 2 tables first, take 10-15 minutes to get some knowledge of the players there, then open another one and focus more on reading players there, and so on till you reach your number?

Or do you open all 4/6/whatever tables all at once and go from there?

I'm using the 2nd one so far, but thought about the first option...which would you say is the best strategy

Are you using a HUD?

Nope. Couldn't manage to get poker tracker to work, but I'll try again in a few days...I know it's very important

good question ..hopefully someone else will post what they do.

personally i open up one table..click sit out and open up another 5 tables and play..probably not the best strategy..but im not all to sure on how to find the tables with the biggest fish

I use Table Scan Turbo. It's in Beta right now so it's free. Works with your HEM/PT3 database.

http://www.tablescanturbo.com/

Really takes all the work out of table selecting and convinced me to get the add-on for HEM whenever this stops being free.

very nice..im gonna try this table scan turbo tonight when i do my next session. do you have to run it with HEM/PT3?

Yeah, it uses your database to get stats on players.

welp i just downloaded it...only got 6 more days of the trial of HEM..piss

If you are only playing 2 tables how necessary is a tracker? I feel like I do not need it, but I want to increase and player at higher limits, right now I am jsut doing low limit tables with weaker players

It's never too early to use tracking software. Every player will benefit from using it.

What software would you recommend, I would be completely new to using any. Are there any good free ones to use or try out?

dsvw...that software program was weird ...maybe i used it wrong or somethin i dunno. i clicked scan tables and it brought up like 9 of them and none had fish at them or anything..maybe my database is small...yeah thats probably it..

It can only scan tables that are currently visible in the site lobby. So if you have a bunch of filters in place, it won't scan all the tables, only the ones shown by your filters.

LMAO wow!!!! that explains it ahah i have a shit load of filters on stars. i was wondering WTF was goin on. tyvm..will pry run another session later tonight with the new and improved filters (AKA NONE) thanks again bud

OK thanks for posting this, I will use it once I get a tracker software going!

this program ended up working well. uhmm when you use it dsvw does it like lag bad when you double click the table? cuz it takes like 2 minutes for the table to actually come up..kinda annoying cuz by the time it came up the seat i wanted was taken

Why don't you just click it in the lobby of your site then?

i did finally start doing that, but its annoying to minimize the table turbo and open up my client lobby...wish it was faster to just click it in the table turbo

When adding tables, I just moved to 2 until I got comfortable over a sizable sample of hands, which took awhile. Then I added 1 and 2 more tables to get to 4, which again took me awhile to feel comfortable with. Then I pretty much jumped to 6 and 8 fairly quickly from there -- once you've multi-tabled for awhile it gets a lot easier to add tables more quickly. I just recently moved up to 9 tables and find it quite comfortable at FR. I've had as many as 11 going as I transition from tight to softer tables (I usually wait for the blinds to come around before standing up, but I want to start on newly available tables immediately), and it hasn't been much trouble either. I feel like I could handle 12 with no problems, but upon WVH's advice I'm going to wait until I've got 50K or so hands at 9 and see how I'm doing as far as hourly rate.

As far as table selection goes, I did buy HEM's Table Scanner add-on, but honestly it hasn't grabbed me yet. It seems to slow me down, but maybe I've just not figured out how to use it most effectively. I also found that by the time it scanned and reported the tables, and then tried to join them, the lag time resulted in the table being full before I get there.

I just open up the lobby, filter the games to the stakes I'm playing, and either sort by Players to the Flop%, or by Waiting# and visibly pick available tables or 0 Waiting tables that have high Player%, like say 25% and up. Usually I can find my first few tables pretty quickly to get started, then I'll scroll down to the middle and bottom where the wait lists are long -- these are usually your fishiest tables where people are lining up to play -- and join the queue on several of those. Then all the time while I'm playing, I have available tables sorted to the top and try to quickly pick those that just came available with good player%. It doesn't take long before I have all 9 going, and as the juicy tables that I lined up for come available, I'll add them long enough to see if the fish are still there (often they've left and it becomes a reg table or breaks quickly). As tables I'm playing become overly tight, say down to 16-18 vpip average, I'll be looking for looser tables to replace them with.

I'll also note that I don't pay much attention to Avg Pot Size anymore, I used to think this meant more fish spewing chips, but not always so. Just a couple of sizable pots can skew this avg high while the table remains pretty tight and unprofitable. I find using the Players to Flop% to be much more indicative of profitable tables. Of course if you see an open table with a huge avg pot size AND a large player%, jump in immediately!

^^^ This. Even if you 1-table you will profit from tracking software, assuming you actually use it to analyze your play. I can't help but chuckle every time I hear a new poker player, or an old-school live player just getting online, claiming there's no real value in tracking software and HUDs. Quite the contrary, especially when multi-tabling and figuring out where your leaks are. Many don't realize the true value doesn't come from tracking data on your opponents (although this is important for HUD purposes, again especially so for multi-tabling), but from analyzing your own play over large samples of hands. For example, being able to see how much money you're losing by opening with marginal hands from EP can be *extremely* eye-opening and crucial to fixing your game quicker than waiting for this realization sink in slowly over a long period. You adjust quicker and realize profits sooner.

Trust me, HEM could cost 10x as much and still be a no-brainer for players who take the game seriously and want to improve.

Great post, dmorris. I never said tracking software was useless, quite the contrary I understood the potential.

Got PT to work as a trial 60 days, hopefully after that I'll have the bankroll to buy it lol now I just have to figure out how to interpret the stats properly.

But I want to ask you about your multi-tables, It's hard for me to imagine using that many. So, here are my questions...

1) Are you using multiple monitors - 2 or 3, with big screens 22" +? Because on my flat 19" monitor, even 4 tiled tables with HUD enabled is crowded.

2) How can you physically pay attention to all of them, especially the situations where you get to play 2-3 hands simultaneously? Sometimes I lose track with 4 tables (esp when tired) and time out in 1 or 2 while paying attention at another one.

3) Do you get to read the players at all, apart from what HEM is telling you? Is it always accurate on reading your opps? I'm thinking that someone can have a night where they play completely different than what their stats suggest...

Well I don't think my comment on that was directed at you. Some others in this thread questioned the importance of tracking software, and it happens regularly. I'm not trying to criticize those with that opinion, only trying to make sure they understand where the perceived value comes from. If it's not for them, then great, but I hate to think that someone refuses to realize their value.

I'm hardly massively multitabling, the top grinders are playing 16-24 and even more. I used to look at that in awe and think it would be impossible for me to ever do, but the more I MT the more plausible it becomes. Not that I'm in a hurry to.

I will say that when you're accustomed to MT, it's quite hard to play a single table again. I don't mind single tabling tournaments as much, and in fact prefer to keep tourneys down to 1 or 2 tables, but trying to play a single ring table is just maddeningly boring to me now.

A 19" would be difficult to play many tiled tables on. You need resolution. My main rig has 3 monitors: two 24" monitors and one 25.5" monitor, all running at 1920x1200 resolution. And no, I didn't buy these for poker -- I'm a professional geek who uses them for all sorts of work and hobby related stuff, but they do come in extremely handy for multi-tabling! Unfortunately 1920x1200 panels in the 22-25" range are getting harder to find in consumer monitors, they all seem to be going to the 16:10 HDTV aspect and 1920x1080 or even lower. The more professional models that still do 1920x1200 and up are more expensive, but that extra vertical resolution is important to me and makes a big difference in tiling tables.

When I 4-tabled, I had two fairly large tables on two monitors, using the 3rd monitor for HEM, lobby, browser, etc. I then added 2 more of the same size onto the third monitor, but I really hated it because swinging your head across about 6' of desktop space trying to keep up with tables was a literal pain in the neck. Going to 8 tables, I shrunk them down to fit 4 each on 2 monitors, again leaving a monitor open for other stuff and reducing the amount of "neck swivel" to watch all the tables. Now that I'm up to 9, I have all in a 3x3 layout on the main center monitor (the 25.5") with the extra 1 or 2 outliers on the right monitor. I usually keep HEM and the lobby on the left monitor, and sometimes a browser up on the right monitor behind the extra tables. At 3x3 they're as small as I can stand them and still fit a useful HUD -- WVH could tell you from our sweat session a couple weeks ago that my HUD text was already small in a 2x2 arrangement, and now it's even smaller. So if I add any more tables they'll be tiled 3x3 on the second monitor. FT only technically supports 16 tables anyway, so I should never need more than 2 monitors at 3x3 each.

All that said, there are several approaches to multi-tabling beside the tiled approach that I prefer. Many players stack or cascade their tables, and get a lot of help from AHK scripts or Table Ninja in helping focus & hide tables as necessary. I may try stacking one day, but for now I prefer tiling. My mind associates certain tables (and certain players) by their position in the matrix, so I tend to automatically react differently or pay more/less attention to those tables in those positions. With stacking you lose that positional awareness and would have to correlate those specific table dynamics with a table or player name. Something else I don't need to remember.

Believe me, it gets a lot easier with practice. As I mentioned the hardest for me was moving from 2 to 4. After that it was progressively easier to add more tables.

It's important to understand, especially when first adjusting to playing several tables, that you cannot possibly play the same game you would play at a single table. You must tighten up quite a bit, make use of the auto-fold checkbox constantly (you don't want to wait your turn to fold every time, otherwise you'd frequently have 6 tables due at once and not have to time to get to them all). You'll be playing mostly ABC poker, especially at first. Your winrate when multi-tabling will typically drop, but your hourly rate will typically increase (assuming you're playing a decent game).

As you get better, you might play 4 or 5 tables as well as you'd play 1 in terms of outplaying your opponents, but I don't think there's any way that a human can play 12+ tables and maintain any level of complex play. You become a machine basically, a bot, at those levels. Which is one of the arguments against multi-tabling: some players never develop that next level of thinking because they don't have any opportunity to do so. Therefore it's important you don't over do it, especially if your game isn't solid yet.

Timeouts do happen, but less frequently the more experience you gain. Sometimes when involved in a tricky hand I'll focus too much and let another hand timeout. Again, tools such as AHK and Table Ninja can help here by auto-activating your time bank so you don't have to.

Reads primarily come from player notes and HUD stats. There are some regs that you'll play with that you get to know their style after awhile, but mostly you're looking at a HUD which is why they're so valuable to multi-tablers.

Stats do take a large sample size to converge into accurate numbers, but the major stats like VPIP/PFR/AF will still give you a fair idea of a player's style within the first 50-100 hands. While it's possible someone could be on a hot or cold deck and that initial sample be very skewed, generally you'll know whether they're fishy or nitty within the first few dozen hands.

When I get into a big pot with a good hand against a reg, I slow down, use the time bank, and sometimes let my other tables timeout if necessary, to really try and decide if or how I can outplay them. With a reg that I have a lot of hands on, this is much easier because you can see their relevant stats. For new players I just go by the best range estimates I can come up with from their limited stats. Hand range estimation is something I'm really trying to work on, because combined with those basic stats a lot of decisions get easier.

Gah, I typed this in chunks over a the last hour or so and now see it's grown quite large. Sorry for the novel, I'm a fast typist and tend to run off at the mouth/keyboard sometimes...

Well, that's a comprehensive answer for sure! But if it took you an hour to type it, you're not that fast a typer

It's good insight. I certainly don't want to move up from 4 tables, I'm not a solid enough player yet anyway and I don't know if I would like to become a 'machine' as you put it.

So do most people doing 16-24 tables successfully make (much) more money than someone playing 4 tables? or 8-9? Should be so to justify it...

I've just started with PT, will have to get used to alot new things. Thanks for the long but very interesting answer!

I'm a big fan of multitabling, but thought I'd throw this perspective in as a fwiw.

Many players are very successful multitabling. As dmorris says, there are grinders who play 16+ tables w very good hourly rates - and if their actual winrates don't justify playing that many tables, the rakeback they make more than offsets the decreased winrate (hence the term "rakeback pro"). But there are players who massively multitable AND have a good winrate, which is ldo super cool.

I got to the point last year where I was 8tabling 6max games and 12 tabling FR games. I found, though, that I couldn't sustain a winning game over large samples - for me, bluntly, I just go on autopilot too much w that many tables running and make just stupid mistakes.

I made a conscious decision this year to stick to 4tabling 6max games as a result, and to focus on extracting as much value from each situation as possible. I spend more time reviewing each step of the hand and Villain's stats, and looking for opportunities to play hands I autofold if I'm playing more tables. I'm happier w my game, though I still have to fight an itch to increase volume. But I'm hoping to move up in limits to the point where I stop having an itch to increase volume.

For anyone who reads this and knows I have an interest in rush poker, the difference is the HUD - since I don't use one in rush, and the play appears to be so poor in rush, it's kind of an exception for me.

Like I say, fwiw...

About 120wpm on a PC keyboard last time I was clocked. Didn't take an hour to type the whole thing, as I said I typed it in several short bursts over an hour. That's why I lost track of how much it was.

Absolutely, if they're winning players. It stands to reason that if you're a winning player at 1 table and can comfortably play 2, you increase your hourly rate even if your winrate dips a bit. Scale that up to 8 or 16 and you can imagine the result, this is why the millionaire grinders are massively multitabling. If you're a break even or losing player then it's a good way to lose faster too. Been there, done that, and if last night is any indicator, still doing it sometimes.

Why aren't you using a HUD at Rush.

Probably because they're really hit & miss. Judging from the HEM forums, theirs only works some of the time and requires very exact table sizes. Yet some claim it's way better than PT3's.

A couple of people claim to have written a better Rush HUD that works with HEM, but it seems a little suspect to me.

Not that I care that much, I had enough of Rush when it first started and swore it off.

I downloaded the new HUD thing for HEM and couldn't get it to work properly. Does it work like its supposed to on PT3? (I think thats what you use?)

I've only used it a couple times tbh, but it worked fine for me. Occasionally I'd have to wait a few seconds for the HUD to catch up but it never caused me to time out or anything. I was only playing 2 Rush tables though. I think people playing 4+ Rush tables say it's too slow to be useful but I haven't tried it.

I've been reluctant to use HEM's current HUD for rush, which I understand overwrites notes on players. I'm not playing rush anything like my normal game, so anyone taking notes on my rush play is in for a surprise if they play me on a standard table, and vice versa. I'm assuming other players are also not playing their normal game.

The other reason was simply cuz I only played rush to clear the bonus, and played 5nl - 25nl. If I were playing 50nl or up, no question I'd start using the HUD, esp if it were 6max (which I didn't try).

No they have an actual HUD out now. Only the 1st work around for HEM over wrote the notes file. Go get the beta and at least try it.

Awesome, tks, missed that...

New to the forum, first post. This is a topic I'm interested in. I want to start playing some multitable cash poker. Currently playing 2 tables and it seems fairly comfortable. I tinkered with 3 and for the most part it was ok, but some situations when i had hands going on all 3 tables were too hectic.

I have some general questions:

-can anyone direct me to some threads that discuss analyzing your own play for leaks and stuff?

-i have PT3 and got used to how the HUD looks. Is there any way to get the HUD to display the full collection of hands i have on a player? Right now the HUD seems to only show data gathered during that session.

-right now I'm only on PS. Probably will start a FT account soon, just to have options. Wondering what the pros/cons are of each site? Like rakebake, i hear PS doesn't do it? How useful is it? (any threads with an overall view on it?).

-any choice threads for low limit NLHE cash games? I saw the 10k post micro-limit thread in the golden archive already.

Responses in bold.

Are you using TILED windows? First I didn't because I thought - oh they're too small, I can't manage etc. but you get used to them fast. For me when I started playing 3 or 4 tables it was way too hectic as well, but only because of the extra click and windows going on top of each other. Tile them. You need at least a 19"" monitor, 22 would be best. Get wide monitors too.

For me it shows all the hands they have on the players, except my own which shows the current table data (which I prefer, for obvious reasons)

Thanks for the responses. Looks like I have some reading to do...and hands to play really. Not worth analyzing just 2k hands i suppose.

The 3 tables i did were manually sized so i could see all 3 in a semi 2x2 grid. I'm actually going to start making them even smaller to get used to how it will likely look if i go to 4+. It was mostly a 'holy crap I have 3 semi-difficult decisions to make in the next 20 seconds!' type thing that messed me up.

Re: PT3. I have only been using the default database it creates automatically. I used it in the trial version for a bit before purchasing it. All the hand histories I've gathered are saved to a specific folder of mine and when i check the 'texas hold'em' tab i can find all the hands I've recorded on any given player. Just seems when i boot up the HUD it shows only for the session. Perhaps it's a HUD setting I should tweak.

Heh, seems I need to learn a good deal more just about PT3. Damn, there are mountains of information to absorb when you decide to start taking this stuff seriously