How to get the most chips out of someone

This is one of the problems i have
if i'm first to act i always check a monster hand to someone to let them bluff, but it never seems to work
here's an example hand from a $20 Freezout from tonight
my backraise was meant to shut out anyone in the hand, i know it was dangerous and maybe stupid, but i did it nonetheless
either way i got real lucky with the flop, but didn't really know what to do
i put him on AK or maybe JJ or TT, but most likely AK
after his flop bets, i realized he had a PP and when i checked, he would bet so i let him do this to the river, but he got scared and checked it
i really should've bet or even pushed

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I dint think there is anything wrong with checking on the flop here, you need to take the chance and hope there is a bet. But with no bet I would bet the min on the turn, hopefully this shows you have nothing and are making a weak attempt on the pot and if not you win it outright.

i think the re-raise would have him thinking from day 1, (JJ always seems to come in second LOL) then to check/call the flop, might be a missed flop with AK and want to see the turn, CHECK again, he bets coz he is winning and when you call again his spidey senses start to tingle! it is a very obvious trap IMHO, i used to do the same stuff,

i think a raise on the turn might have served you well to get more money out of him, (how many times have you seen it, i bet, u raise i call knowing im beat but because i just bet i have to call the raise), he would have called your raise and you would not have left any money on the table like you did with that hand, check/call flop, check/raise turn, leadout on river is the way i would have played this hand, IM AN AMATURE THO LOL

Im curious as to why you re-raised with 88 when in my post you say to fold , the initial raise is not as big as in my case tho.
http://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=67196

i backraised
limp from UTG then reraise once someone behind me raises
people sometimes do this with aces or kings to shut people out of the pot
i was trying to represent that, and hoped to shut him out or get a call then bet big on the flop to push him out of the pot

as for your method to playing the hand im sure it would have done me better to play it like you said

Preflop-- I don't like the re-raise.

Flop-- I think was correct.

Turn-- I also think was correct.

River -- I think you must put a bet out there. Sure he may fold, but you have the pseudo-nuts, so you have to try and get something from him.
Even something small, along the lines of 200-250 might get him to call, or better yet come over the top of you. With this board, I think the most you could have got out of him was a call of a small raise on the river.

Good hand.

i really dont like when players have a good hand befor the flop and dont raise but i guess thats another way to get more chips out of someone

The problem with this hand, and the way you play it is it stinks like a slowplay. When you raise, limp/reraise or simply reraise it always look suspicious when you check the flop. I would probably make a small bet like 100-150 and hope he either called or came over the top of me. If he called I would check the turn in order to make him bluff at the pot. Betting the flop is actually the only way you can make a deceptive play, cause he expects you to bet the flop no matter what cards come. This allows him to set up a bluff if he had a hand like AK or call if he thinks he has a better hand than you.

mmmmm, this is a weird one.

I think you you both tried to slow play what you both thought were monster hand, if that sounds right!

88 UTG is normally a small raising hand. The problem with the call you made is that, as you said, you dont really know where you are in the hand. The flop made it ridiculously easy for you, it would have been interesting to see how you would have played the hand had you missed the flop, or if an Ace had flopped

The reason he is only raising small is because he doesnt want you to fold. He has seen the table fold around to a UTG limper and wants to maximise his return with his premium wired pair

You re-raise must have scared him a bit, as a call UTG, then a re-raise preflop normally puts the UTG on a huge hand, much bigger than 88

I think you played it quite well after that. The check on the river is bad, this is where position means a lot, its nice to see your opponent make the 1st move.

very nice hand, as it turned out!

You represented AA or KK with the reriase. You represented something that has him beat. Your monster raise put him in a box. He was scared of trips below him, any over pair above him and on the river there were even straight possiblities. His JJ was looking pretty weak at that point.

To work thing well you need to do a value bet on the river that is worth calling. I don't mind slowplaying to an overly aggressive player but you have to risk a fold with a bet on the river. The way this hand happened, you could have bet and he folded and the pot would still be the same. Smart players will realize that the only call on the river he will get is a hand that can beat his and check. You did not have to worry about that so you should have bet and hoped he reraises.

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sorry, my daughter's thoughts on this thread

On a hand this strong I don't mind check/calling the flop, or turn, but you need to lead the river for a bet. You needed to make a value bet of 3/4 pot and hope to get a call, I don't think you could have gotten any more out of him. Very nice hand!

Only difference we have here Chuck, I would more than likely not have reraised pre-flop & would have bet the river. So follow my advice & maybe get even less out of him. lol.

Xandit has good logic here

Always bet...never over slow play a big hand or you will get no value off it..Assert yourself as a big raiser/better and then keep betting on BIG HANDS also.

I kinda like what you did here, pre-flop anyway. It's just amazing that you ended up flopping quads. If you hadn't... say an A or a K hit the board and the rest was ragged, you could have bet the flop and he would have folded the best hand (JJ).

But the real question here is how to maximize your profit having flopped quads. Had you raised preflop and then got reraised by JJ and then just called, he might have been ready to move all in with no overcards to his J's. But since you opted to represent AA or KK (which would have been an awesome play had you made him lay down JJ if no 8's had flopped), it's very difficult to see how to maximize this hand.

I guess it depends on how you've seen the JJ player play throughout the tournament. If he's a tight passive player, it's doubtful you can get much money here unless he happens to spike a J, in which you're in heaven and he'll go broke. If he's loose aggressive, then I think a check on the flop and 4th street are good moves and definitely a bet on the river if he's not willing to bite before then. How much to bet depends on whether you think he'll bite to a small bet or if he'll try to make a move against a large bet. If he's smart and a good player, he'll smell a rat and dump his JJ. If you know him to be smart, then I think betting throughout the hand is the move and hope he calls or makes a play on you.

i think that this was just a tough hand to get a good pot from. i mean, if you bet too hard on the flop, he figures you for 888. so you go easy on the flop probably hoping to get the pot up on the turn. but then after the turn, the community cards are 8899, which now makes it tough to bet hard again. by the time you get to the river, a bet is going to make him fold (unless it is very small), so you check hoping that he bets. now the community cards are scary to someone holding JJ so he checks.

i'm very much an amateur at this, but it seems to me that there wasn't much more you could do to extract more chips from this hand.

nice hand though - always better to win something than nothing!

Props to your opponent. He played those Jacks pretty well.

Well, Preflop I like a fold but what the heck. I believe he was in the cut off, his raise initially looks like a steal.
Here is the the thing, if you hit a set or better can you get this guy to stack off? If so, take a shot. In hindsight he was never going to pay off a set or better, by the river, he missed a redraw inside straight, was facing 2 pair, and the hearts.

Well played on both sides!

Bill

Would try a small rais on the turn or the river... may just jolt you opponent int o a stupid bet. Even if he calls thats a little bit more in your pocket.

I was just reading the first harrington book (an example that directly applies here) and in it he says that checking on the river with the nuts is dumb. Granted you didn't really have the nuts but the odds of a straight flush are very very remote based on the PF raise the villian made. He recommends a raise of less than half the opponent remaining stack. It gives good pot odds for a call plus people are more willing to call if they aren't completely out. Based on what he suggested I'd have bet in the 100-200 range.