How to get more value from a tight range?

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Pocket_Ones

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I play live low stakes games (1/2, 2/3, and 3/5).

I play a really tight range (~8% of hands)

Early Position:
Raise: QQ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Middle Position
Raise: JJ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Late Position
Raise: TT+ and AQ+
Limp/call 22+

My style does not warrant much action, so I looking for more ways to extract additional chips given the ranges above.

Some of the plays I have been implementing more:
1. Limp with AA or KK in up front if most hands at the table are brought in for a raise. If the pot is likely to be heads up, then smooth call and look for a check raise on the flop or turn. Otherwise throw in a large 3 bet to pick up the dead money or go heads up to the flop with a monster.
2. If the pot has been raised and folded around to me in late position with AA or KK, or QQ, either smooth call if no one else is likely to enter the pot, or min 3 bet.
3. Flat with AK in position if the pot is likely to be heads up. Float the flop when I miss and try to take in down on the turn if villain checks. Call flops with A or K high in order to let villain continue on the turn with AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, at which point I can check raise the, or pick up an additional bet on the river.
4. When I hit a set on dry flops, or A/K flops with no draws, call the flop bet and then donk out or check raise the turn.
5. In general more small raises or re-raises pre-flop in order to induce re-raises or get more chips in the middle.
6. In loose games where most raises will be called by at least one player regardless of size, raise substantially large (10x), so continuation bets on the turn and flop take down bigger pots. Also I do not invite a group of callers with trash, furthermore better players have less incentive to play drawing hands with such a large price.
 
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Xmaster

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I think it's normal that tight players often don't get much action. Especially if your opponents observe you. The only way to get paid out more often, in my opinion, is to play also a weaker hand from time to time. Otherwise the other players always know, that you have a good hand, when you are willing to play a hand.
 
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Pocket_Ones

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My other consideration is to scrap much of the fancy play, and instead 3-bet and or squeeze with a much higher frequency.

Keep the same ranges above, just look for good opportunities to squeeze of 3-bet with hands that have some decent equity post flop (suited connectors/gappers, and the middle pocket pairs (77-JJ).

My tight image may give my initial squeezes and 3-bets more creditably, and I could take down the pot preflop or with a c-bet. Occasionally my 3 bet might hit a deceptive monster. The goal would be the some one shoves AK, TT, JJ, QQ over my 3-Bet when I am holding a better hand because them assume Im 3-betting light.
 
DaveE

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Try raising unopened pots from middle and late position with suited connectors. It will balance your range somewhat.
 
westside1950

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I would realy recommend you to avoid limping such a monster hands, especially in late position.
OK - you can limp in AA or KK UTG - but from late positions thats really not a good idea. Most of the times the blinds will check it with crap hands and won't commit a cent more unless they flop big (2 pairs +) or some heavy draws and that's where the trouble starts for you - you will end up paying them off most of the time, but they will rarely pay you off...
 
limpnfold88

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I play live low stakes games (1/2, 2/3, and 3/5).

I play a really tight range (~8% of hands)

Early Position:
Raise: QQ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Middle Position
Raise: JJ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Late Position
Raise: TT+ and AQ+
Limp/call 22+

My style does not warrant much action, so I looking for more ways to extract additional chips given the ranges above.

Some of the plays I have been implementing more:
1. Limp with AA or KK in up front if most hands at the table are brought in for a raise. If the pot is likely to be heads up, then smooth call and look for a check raise on the flop or turn. Otherwise throw in a large 3 bet to pick up the dead money or go heads up to the flop with a monster.
2. If the pot has been raised and folded around to me in late position with AA or KK, or QQ, either smooth call if no one else is likely to enter the pot, or min 3 bet.
3. Flat with AK in position if the pot is likely to be heads up. Float the flop when I miss and try to take in down on the turn if villain checks. Call flops with A or K high in order to let villain continue on the turn with AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, at which point I can check raise the, or pick up an additional bet on the river.
4. When I hit a set on dry flops, or A/K flops with no draws, call the flop bet and then donk out or check raise the turn.
5. In general more small raises or re-raises pre-flop in order to induce re-raises or get more chips in the middle.
6. In loose games where most raises will be called by at least one player regardless of size, raise substantially large (10x), so continuation bets on the turn and flop take down bigger pots. Also I do not invite a group of callers with trash, furthermore better players have less incentive to play drawing hands with such a large price.

You should NEVER be limping with aces or kings utg. When you limp 3-bet with them, you're basically turning your hand face up. Unless you balance your limp 3-betting range with weaker hands also.
 
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GWU73

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I see two possible adjustments without massively changing your game:

Option A
Open raise that entire range 3bb at reasonable tables
Add suited Broadway hands from MP2 and later - raise those too.
I would treat the suited Broadway hands like small pairs when facing pre flop aggression.
Raise limpers with TT+
3bet AJs+, AK, QQ+

This is still super tight. You should loosen up enough to get action, and play aggressive enough to pick up some dead money.

Option B'
UTG-MP1; raise TT+ to 5bb (limp or fold 22-99 depending on aggressiveness of table)
MP2+ raise your entire range 3bb.
3bet AK, QQ+ 100%
3bet 88+, AK from the button or blinds vs opens from steal positions.
Squeeze TT+, AK at every opportunity

Check raise dry flops in heads up pots if opponent can fold.
Sometimes check raise TP or over pairs - opponent sensitive move
Usually check raise sets, except vs calling stations

This is just as tight(maybe tighter), but MUCH more aggressive.
You will have to be good at judging opponents if you add a lot of check raising, squeezing & 3betting.

Both adjustments will still require you to play poker, not just systemize your play, and there will be increased variance with option B.
in either case consider looking for weakness (like blocking bets) and betting when you see it.
 
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Karozi615

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I recommend you stop playing a tight range and start playing optimal poker. Playing a tight range does not maximize your value, and you are in the middle of the food chain. It is easily to exploit TAG players because they are highly predictable. Way too tight preflop and almost ALWAYS way to sticky post flop.


Being better requires stepping out of your comfort zone and being prepared to make mistakes. The worst part about being a TAG player is that not only is it suboptimal, it isn't even fun.

If you going to be a TAGish live player you better be an expert at table selection, because the line up is much more important for you then an actual shark.


your limp/calling pairs? how about you stop doing that and you open those hands and raise/fold or raise/call. You can use stack sizes, personal feel, and other variables to determine how to maximize profitability.

Your opening JJ+ plus in MP? I would be 3betting TT in MP in a weak passive live low limit game.


stop limping with AA and KK in EP. Your losing value and its kinda obvious to anyone whose paying any attention.
 
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SnowedIn

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why aren't you raising hands like 88s in MP, it's not a hand you want to play multi-handed is it?
 
fletchdad

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why aren't you raising hands like 88s in MP, it's not a hand you want to play multi-handed is it?


What do you mean by raising - 3 betting or open raising? I agree that if you play 88 and are first to act, depending on how you view the players still to come, open raising is probably the best way to play it, but this, as so often is the case, depends. I am also very possibly only calling if a raise has already been put in (this also depends...) And a hand like 88 is great in a multi way pot. Plays easy after the flop and if you hit you want more people involved in the hand.
 
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Weisssound

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I play live low stakes games (1/2, 2/3, and 3/5).

I play a really tight range (~8% of hands)

Early Position:
Raise: QQ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Middle Position
Raise: JJ+ and AQ+
Limp/call: 22+

Late Position
Raise: TT+ and AQ+
Limp/call 22+

My style does not warrant much action, so I looking for more ways to extract additional chips given the ranges above.

Some of the plays I have been implementing more:
1. Limp with AA or KK in up front if most hands at the table are brought in for a raise. If the pot is likely to be heads up, then smooth call and look for a check raise on the flop or turn. Otherwise throw in a large 3 bet to pick up the dead money or go heads up to the flop with a monster.

On 1/2 this play works. I think limp-raising and even limp-smooth calling can face up your hand a bit at any table where people know what's up. The limp-raise is astoundingly obvious, and more astoundingly gets over on so many weaker players.

2. If the pot has been raised and folded around to me in late position with AA or KK, or QQ, either smooth call if no one else is likely to enter the pot, or min 3 bet.

Yeah. Make sure you balance your min 3-bet though if you have thinking players (again may not be applicable at 1/2). 9Ts is a great balance hand for this play.

3. Flat with AK in position if the pot is likely to be heads up. Float the flop when I miss and try to take in down on the turn if villain checks. Call flops with A or K high in order to let villain continue on the turn with AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, at which point I can check raise the, or pick up an additional bet on the river.

I dig it. You can also bet the flop if checked to you, AK is genuinely ahead of a lot the original raiser's range, and not vastly far behind a lot of it (and it's rare that pocket 7s are checking a ten high board to you).

4. When I hit a set on dry flops, or A/K flops with no draws, call the flop bet and then donk out or check raise the turn.

I'd really be looking to adjust to the player as much as possible here. I wouldn't set a formula. I would just aim at the word "value" and try to figure the best way to do it. Older players will figure this out ASAP. Younger players may consider that you are making a play. It's going to be very case dependent. Usually a draw of some sort will show up on the turn so take that into consideration.

5. In general more small raises or re-raises pre-flop in order to induce re-raises or get more chips in the middle.

Balancing your range. This is the number one thing that will get you paid off more in the long run. Just be smart about it. Don't go from nit to maniac. Use your experience playing smart-nitty and widen your range enough to have some unexpected cards and you'll be a dangerous player. I'm coming from the other direction :)

6. In loose games where most raises will be called by at least one player regardless of size, raise substantially large (10x), so continuation bets on the turn and flop take down bigger pots. Also I do not invite a group of callers with trash, furthermore better players have less incentive to play drawing hands with such a large price.

Heads up play, in position, with a big pot in the middle is ideal. Even if your cards aren't 100% awesome. Multi-way, out of position, with a small pot is not ideal even with AA. Raise sizing pre-flop is very important - some opponents look at the pot ratio. Some opponents only look at the number. The pot could be $200, and some players won't invest $50 to see a flop. Other players look at their cards. If they like KJ suited, $150 to see $200 might make perfect sense to them.

Make sure you adjust your range to the situation. Playing formula poker will ultimately win, but it will win slowly.
 
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