how do YOU observe players?

#1 26th December 2007, 7:11 PM

I know that on cash games you are supposed to watch the players before you even get onto the table, to watch for tendencies, playing style, etc.

But I really dont know specifically what to look for beyond how many flops they see, raising PF, and how much they bet.

Does anyone have an overall checklist of the kind of stuff to look for?

#2 26th December 2007, 7:39 PM

If your talking online, then what you state, with some variations, is about all you can hope for. The one thing you didn't mention, for online play, would be betting pauses. It might be good to ignore this as so many online players, along with internet traffic can send this 'read' into false read land.

If live, you might want to watch players who are not in a hand to see what their normal demeanor might be. Sort of a baseline against what they might change to when in a hand. When in a pot you might be looking for indications about just how committed they seem to a hand. You also should be looking to what you are doing, and what tells you might be sending. Some things live might be automatic, like an increased pulse rate showing via throbbing arteries in the neck, or a change in breathing, suddenly shiny hands or skin indicating a new tension and sweating. Or a fresh attention to how much a player wants his stack to look just so.

I sort of like Danial Negraneu's style of showing his emotions and then manipulating them purposefully. Having never seen him live I can't be sure but it looks good on TV.

#3 26th December 2007, 8:44 PM

I turn on Poker Tracker and let it compile all the stats, and it auto-assigns a style to them.

#4 26th December 2007, 10:57 PM

Here is a thread on note taking that you might find interesting.

#5 26th December 2007, 11:13 PM

AG has it covered as far as online. If you are talking about live, then just add a few things. Remember, don't go crazy trying to remember everyone's tics/eye movement/ twitches etc... Watch their betting patterns, their hands and if they are behaving confident or weak. Focus on the two players to your left and the one to your right at first, then expand out as you get more comfortable at the table.

And invest in Caro's Book of Tells. It will be worth it if you play live regularly.

#6 10th January 2008, 4:15 PM

How much time they take to check, call, raise or flop comes to mind.

#7 11th January 2008, 2:04 AM

Good points.

killerrat, do you play .02nl on stars? i think i remember you.

#8 11th January 2008, 2:49 AM

I like to look at their post flop strategies mainly and secondly what starting hands their willing to play with.

A player i played with today always bet if he hit the flop and always checked if he missed it, its easy to spot and easy chips if you can get into a lot of pots with them. These players are rare but when you find them you have to take advantage of the situation and especially if you are sitting to their left.

Figuring out what starting hands a played will play with is a little tougher to spot becuase so many people will change that up and some people will play basically any hand. The best way is to look for the extreme people. The peopl who are really lose and the peopl who are really tight. Try to take advantage of how they play their cards once you figure that out.

Good luck and try too look for the simple things.

Starting Bankroll: $0.00
Current Bankroll: $27.70

#9 11th January 2008, 12:19 PM

Thanks AG for the link.

Some of the things i keep notes on

-What style are they showing: TAG, LAG, tight-passive, loose-passive, etc.
...I dont make this permanent since players style can change based on the table.

-Who likes to chase their draws with and without proper odds (flush, straight)
...This is good to know because this is usually where I get paid. Vs those who chase w/o proper odds, I like to bet pot on the flop and then push on the turn (if it doesnt hit). Almost guaranteed I'll get paid off on my hand.

-Who plays their position aggressively; range of hands
...I'll reraise any J high hand in BB if button raise range is ATC. Especially if they tend to fold to a raise.

-Range of hands opponent raises PF; what position
...I like to know who is capable of raising hands like Q10s UTG or similar. Who raises Big hands (AA, KK, AK) OoP, etc.

-Range of hands opponent calls PFR with; what position
...Again, Im basically looking for players who are likely to call raises with OoP. Im looking for players who are willing to call hands like J10, Q9, etc.

-Range of hands opponent calles PF re-raise; what position
...A combination of both. I want to find the players who are unable to fold hands like Q10s, 89s, etc after being reraised.

-Who will C-bet any flop after a PFR; fold to a raise
...I look for players who make this too predictable. I'll raise with as little as bottom pair in this situation, but fold to a reraise.

-Who will not C-bet a flop with high cards showing, unless they hit
...Very easy to take the pot from them with a bet on the flop after they check.

-Who will fold to a C-bet on a rag board
...Unless Im slow playing a monster and want to give my opponent a little rope, I can easily take the pot down with a 1/2 pot flop bet.

-Who will call/raise a C-bet on a rag board; range of hands
...I want to know who will call a C bet with any pair or if they reraise, what are they capable of raising with. (Any pair, any draw, etc) If I can beat the flop/opponents hand, I'll bet strong on the turn. If not, I'll slow down unless my hand improves.

-Who goes on tilt easily; complains a lot
...I like to target these players who complain about other peoples play. I'll mix it up with semi-marginal hands every now and then to toy with them, then play a monster the same way.

-Who seems to be playing based on the hands they are dealt and not their opponents
...Very easy to buy the pot with a PFR with ATC vs these players. C-bet 100% as well. A lot of PF or flop buys are guaranteed. Fold to a raise unless you have a big hand as well.

This is the basic stuff I keep notes on.

#10 11th January 2008, 7:43 PM

im a much better live player than online ( I have no idea why, i just am) Anyway as far as live tells, a few big ones are, if someone checks then instantly looks at you, most of the time they have nothing. If they look at their chips straight after flop, usually means they have nothing, if their feet are twitching, usually means they have something.

Thats just a few general ones, each person then has their own specific tells

#11 12th January 2008, 10:29 PM

I use a program called Poker Office, its completely legal. It records the hand histories then puts stats right on the table for you. So every time I play I know exactly what % each player is seeing the flop, % of how much each player is raising preflop, etc. It's very very helpful, I dont know what I would do without it haha!

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