how do you feel about minraises?

I'm talking about the prflop kind. They annoy the living cat piss out of me. And im not talking about being on the button, having everything folded to you and trying to extract value from your aces....im talking about utg etc minraising with w j9.....it screams of inexperience and lately ive been three betting em with a decent hand I would have normally raised with.....The problem is that a lot of times, nits will min raise with hight pp's to maybe get a read if they might be up against a good hand.....I think for one it scares the truly inexperienced people out of the pot but as well makes the donks more likely to call....if they get raised a decent amount, they can extract more value than if they raised normally....The only advantage I can see this doing for me though is raising my 3 bet percentage when i do raise them....(I.e. it makes it look like when I really 3bet, I might be doing it light.) How do you guys deal with em and whats do you feel is the best strategy for dealing with em? This is mini limit problem by the way....

not by any means am i a min raise fan,but i can use it as a tool early on in tournaments...usually very early if i,m utg with a decent hand i,ll throw out the min raise to see what and how its bitten...it gives me information from a player that might have taken longer to find out..as i say i,m not a fan...but i think no one stragedy is going to work time after time..so there are tools at our disposal thet we can use...even if its one we dont like to use.

Well sometimes I like to mini raise becuase of taking the chips when I had AA, if you raising too high nobody will call you right then you do some higher raise and see if the guys want to call you.

I like minraising when I can get away with it. Lets say everyone is tightening up on the bubble, and I can steal pot after pot. But usally I make it a little more than minraise, say 4100 instead of 4000.
I also minraise sometimes in headsup battles.
But I usally think minraising is kind of fishy. However there are always exceptions to the rule.

min raises are good for players that can out play on the flop. it also helps juice up pots and get part of a flop, but still this strategy is only for players that feel comfortable on flop and post-flop play.

Just like any other raise, a min raise can be used for a strategic play. It looks weak in nature, but it is still a raise. In essence, it's similar to limping from early position with aces or kings, because you are likely to see a reraise. I would almost never do it with a hand that I wouldn't at least call a reraise with, but I've min raised with big hands before and then gone back over the top after a reraise.

Also, I feel confident in my abilities to read other players post flop. As a result, I might min raise with a decent hand from the button or CO, figuring that I might as well get more chips into the pot if I have position, because more often than not, I think I'll make the right play. If I'm going to make the right play, why not get twice as much in the pot at the start of the hand?

i like doing min raises if im first to act sometimes with like a 9 10 or somethin i find it gets the weaker hands out such as i 2 9 random garbage hands the people would go with its just for the blinds. But i wouldnt min raise with ak or any alright hand

Not a huge fan but depending on when and how frequently you use it, min raising can be a means to see more flops. Hate limping in and do my best to avoid it but any hand I might want to limp in with is also a candidate for a min raise....a "min raise limp" if you will.

There is one tourney situation I see over and over:

Mid to late position and the bet comes to me with 2 or 3 limpers calling the BB

With a hand like 98 suited (which is screaming for a flop) many will try just joining the limpers but many times I see where a min raise is more likely to get to the flop without facing another raise compared to just plain limping.

And in the above situation, time and again I put in a min raise and then see drops all around back to one the of the limpers. Not infrequently, one or two of the limpers or the blinds will call but they may just muck, too. Hitting the flop hard holding a hand like 98 suited with 4-6 other limps at a cost of 2 BBs is not a bad place to be....

Of course someone behind you may make a stiff raise before you get to that flop and you need to get out of the way or either one of the limpers could be testing the waters, actually looking for the opportunity to re-raise as could either of the blinds.

Min raise limps cost twice as much to toss away as a plain limp but I find they pay for themselves many times over if you pick the right spots.

this is my 3 aces post (111)

i think it is weak. either limp reraise with premium hands or just standart 3bb raise otherwise fold.
3bet(10bb) and if get called then be careful.
But i am a huge fan of button minraise preflop.

In cash games its a bad play, especially for a beginner who isnt amazing post flop, for example, you raise to 10c at a 5nl table utg with KK, your giving every player behind you a chance to call with pp's and higher sc's and get good implied odds for their call.... plus if you get multiple callers its just increasing the likely hood of your big pocket pair getting beaten, you might have got more money into the pot but you've also increased your chances of being beat.

I hate a min raise, especially when it's my BB their raising, all you do with a min raise is waste more of your chips because it's not much different than a limp and you won't get no one out freflop who wanted to limp in anyway, the only time i see min raising as strategy is in the later stages of a tournament where you can min raise the short stacks with a good hand to get more chips off them because their only move is allin or fold,

I like to min raise preflop because I feel I can get people in the pot for more chips when I have a good hand. They usually never fold for a min raise.

I think that minraises are a good deceptive tactic. Of all the bets you can make, I think a minraise tells people the least about your hand.

I've seen it often enough in the very late stages of a big field tournament when it's down to the last few tables, and even at the final table. With huge blinds and anti of say 25,000/50,000 - 5,000, it happens often enough when a flop is seen.

Little known fact: 8 out of 10 fairly inexperienced players minraise with AA or KK as a habit. 9 out of 10 fairly experienced players will see right through this and make their plays appropiately.

Though by no means am I inferring you are an inexperienced player, as I know nothinf of you UnknownFlush. I was just using your post as an example.

I can't stand minraising, either you are weak and putting out a poor bluff, or you are playing a big hand and you're allowing others to catch up to you. I play AA similarly to 99, AK, and others just so that no one can place my hand based on a betting pattern. In online poker, it is about the only way you can give up your hand, and it is pretty simple to stay generic with your betting just to send out an ambiguous signal to the others at the table.

I agree. min raises are truly the most annoying thing. I always want to scream in the chatbox, MINRAISE!?!? WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO GET OFF THEIR HAND??!?!?

It's simply a bad move unless you're trying to extract more money or if you're probing post flop. Other than that, you are just being a donk.

Finally, it can never be considered "extracting money" if you have aces and there are 8 people in the pot and you min raise. You are just asking to lose a huge sum b/c you're a donk who won't lay down aces to any board.

minraises are fine in some situations, the issue is that about 1% of people who minraise actually know what these situations are.

For me it depends on what I know about the player making the min raise bet. If I don't know anything about the player, then I treat it like any other raise; a sign of strength. However, it does give me the opportunity to play speculative hands that can hit powerful hands on the flop. If I consider the player a strong player, I would treat it coutiously because of the unusual nature of the play by a strong player. If I consider the player weak, then I would treat it as a sign of their weak play and treat it accordingly.

What if you minraise all your hands?

dingdingdingding we have a winner

What the heck are those facts from?!? Little known indeed! From my experience, newer players throw too much out when they see a big pair, mostly because they can`t wait to get paid big. Nothing personal but I`d love to know where those stats are from. Maybe online its true but I play cash games in AC, NJ all the time and its super easy to spot when a newbie gets a great hand. A min raise is a great tool to use just to throw a change of pace at the table when you usually go 4x or 5x the BB. It usually is met with a weird look and a cautious call. But I never use it with good cards and out of position, you gotta weed out bad cards and narrow out the field. I always try to keep `em thinking.

I agree mini raises can be very annoying. However if they are happening every hand it is in your favor. For example if 3 or more people have already called the mini raise and you have AA KK AK or even AQ why not go allin. Thats most likely what I would do. Depending on the read I have on them though. However I am not a pro yet. Thats just my opinion.

I think miniraise is fish playing.Usually I take it as check.I think it do no good to anyone in the long run.People who use miniraise base on an wrong idea.One day they will give it up one day.

For me I'll do min raise against an aggressive table, when I have AK or better, with the expectation of getting reraised against one of the bluffers, or someone on tilt perhaps.

and then when u 4bet ur hand is very obvious.
and can u tell me why min raising with premium hands with the expectation of getting reraised is better than limp reraising?
imo limpers gets raised more often than minraisers.

i like them in a tournament if your starting with a premium hand hi pocket but then you have to watch what flops if you get those flops where it is likely for someone to call the raise with Q 10 K 10 K 9 Q 9 J 10 J 9 and the flop comes any of those combos then watch out. ITS ALL ABOUT FEEL AND DONT BE AFRAID TO FOLD THOSE BIG POCKET PAIRS

I personally hate it, and there is no value in it if u always do it (it's a fish play), but I do it rarely to keep my opponents off the track. I mostly raise x3 or x2.5 depending on the blinds(tournament)/or the table(cash), and if I have been raising quite a lot, then I minraise with a worse hand now and then, because when u do that, they always notice and think he must have aces or kings and fold to that. always works!

I try and keep all my raises the same (3bet) no matter what the hand. Nobody can get a read on you that way. If you bet Q-J the same as A-A or 9-9 or little suited connectors, you'll keep em guessing.

i dont like miniraise at all... i find that ur not putting enough presure on the other players at ur table so what will happen is ull see to many garbage hands calling ur little miniraise and making a good hand ...not what i want to see when i have a PP or 2 overcards....

Congrats on your 111th! Just made 1000 myself. Excellent post, and I find this to be true, especially in EP. Others also made good points, i.e. crystalblue on the late tourney/high blinds issue. Weirdhotshot, with a min-raise, especially in late postion, you are NOT trying to get anyone off their hand, unless you are a total noob. On the contrary (and this is particularly true in pot limit), it serves to build a pot should you hit, giving you the opportunity to put in a huge bet post-flop, and easily get away from if you don't. All in all, it can better set up a bluff, but position and the entire table also factor in. Agreed it is stupid with an AA (made hand, but you need to narrow the field).

Again, I will point out the huge differences between online poker and real poker. If you are in a live game, you will see physical patterns of showing strength and weakness. If he looks at his chips repeatedly, or looks at his hole cards frequently, or drinks/smokes, looks around, leans over the table to see, etc. then you have picked up a tell and can make a better decision. There's no ONE way to approach this situation. Sense weakness and obviously raise. Sense he's on a weaker draw and obviously raise. Sense he's made his hand but could lose to you if you hit and maybe call. Again, the tells you pick up will give you your answer. If you are strictly referring to online play, you have to go more with odds and judgments based on limited information.

I'm not a fan of min raises at all. There's a few rare places that come to mind where you'd consider it, but not many.

Does this mean good online pokers or competent Long-Term online players need to be able to calculate odds and go with odds and judgments equally?

If so, maybe I should learn more about calculating odds on the spur of the moment when I am not confident in my judgment?? The reason I am wondering is because somewhere else on the forum I saw people writing about how some players (someone mentioned Phil Ivey) play the odds.

I do not really calculate odds in the time given unless it is pre-flop or a 4-flush or open ended straight, and sometimes odds are complicated (such as both players having a gutshot straight draw etc. post flop, turn)

Oh, i got another smart-ass remark about minraising:

Minraises are from people who feel that they really should raise their hand, but don't have the stones to do it properly.