How do you deal with short-stackers at Pokerstars' 2nl tables?

#1 1st November 2011, 6:36 PM

I want to stress that I'm extremely new to cash games, but this is something that I'm still very confused about. There is an enormous amount of animosity in the online community towards SS players, and as the minimum buy-in at PS 2nl is 40bb these might not be "real" shortstackers anyway, but so far I have not had any problems with them whatsoever. They seem to broadly fall into one of two categories:

1) Shortstack nits. They buy in for 40 or 50 blinds and play really tightly. Nits are quite easy to exploit. If they are to my left I am stealing their blinds, if they are immediately to my right then in effect they become invisible.

2) Shortstack fish. I definitely like having these to my right.

So, going back yet again to the CotW on table selection and the one on how to play effectively against short stack opponents, various people said there that as soon as they have 3 or more shortstack players at a table they will leave.

If they are so easily exploitable, why is it important to leave once you have 3 or more of them at the table?

#2 2nd November 2011, 4:52 PM

Sorry, I have already asked this question here:

Do you avoid shortstackers in FR cash games at PS?

Please feel free to delete this thread

#3 2nd November 2011, 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4STFORW4RD

1) Shortstack nits. They buy in for 40 or 50 blinds and play really tightly. Nits are quite easy to exploit. If they are to my left I am stealing their blinds, if they are immediately to my right then in effect they become invisible.

If they are the shove or fold type either pre or OTF then Id min raise these players when stealing their blinds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4STFORW4RD

If they are so easily exploitable, why is it important to leave once you have 3 or more of them at the table?

The number of shortstack/smallstack players limits the amount you can win. So obv the more you have at your table the less you're able to win.

#4 2nd November 2011, 6:08 PM

Thanks. The challenge is that there is one particular time when I play that these tables are ABSOLUTELY FESTERING with SS players from Central and Eastern Europe. It's a very profitable time to play, because their play is so bad, but very few tables have less than 3 of them during this time.

#5 3rd November 2011, 6:45 PM

I had a look at the Euro tables last night, but they still have the same infestation.

#6 5th November 2011, 8:18 PM

I think part of the challenge is that PS seems to automatically offer an 80c top-up on these tables, so even people that buy in for more initially will start playing SS after they have been stacked once.

#7 5th November 2011, 10:08 PM

The issue with shortstacking in cash games that was a big problem for years was regarding 20bb buyins. Nobody has a problem with 40bb buyins. Most of the big sites changed their cash game structures a year or more ago however and so this isn't an issue anymore. FWIW the NL2 and NL5 games on Stars have always had a 40bb minimum buyin so there has never been an issue with them at all.

#8 5th November 2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackRain79

FWIW the NL2 and NL5 games on Stars have always had a 40bb minimum buyin so there has never been an issue with them at all.

So when these guys tell me that it negatively affects the win rate to have more than 3 at the table... ?

#9 5th November 2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4STFORW4RD

So when these guys tell me that it negatively affects the win rate to have more than 3 at the table... ?

COTW is a 2+2 article or something? The information you are reading is probably dated. They are probably talking about 20bb buyins.

#10 5th November 2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackRain79

COTW is a 2+2 article or something? The information you are reading is probably dated. They are probably talking about 20bb buyins.

Yes, I agree with that bit, it was written before PS and FT introduced the 40bb minimum. I'm talking about contemporary comments from CardsChat members.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brank

The number of shortstack/smallstack players limits the amount you can win. So obv the more you have at your table the less you're able to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyChippy

At 2nl nobody is playing a proper shortstack strategy which means the difficulty and reduced edge of playing them is not a factor. Knowing this the only other factor is the reduced amount of money we can win from a bad player, we want them all to have a decent amount of money to win from ESPECIALLY the player to our right, who even if he was as good as us we should be winning money from.

Basically, you want a full stack player to your right when you sit down every time. You want 1 or 2 SS's at most on your table but at 2nl you shouldn't even settle for that really.

You then play for 2 or 3 rounds and it should become apparent very quickly whether you want to stay or find another table.

- If there's a big aggressive fish anywhere you stay.
- If there's a fish that calls a lot pre-flop and is super exploitable post anywhere then stay.
- If there are a couple of bad players around that you have a clear plan to exploit then stay.
- If the player to your right is a big fish then never leave, if he's a little bit exploitable then stay unless the rest of the table becomes truly terrible.

If none of these are true then leave, if there's a not overly fishy player but the rest of the table isn't terrible then leave. You should also leave if the player to your right becomes short stacked and the rest of the table is average, he's the guy you have most edge over and will be most profitable. The beauty of 2nl is that you can always find a table better than the one you're currently on. Don't stop moving tables (unless you play tons of tables then it's too difficult, but I know you don't.)

(I added bold to the appropriate bit of the Lucky Chippy post)

#11 6th November 2011, 1:26 AM

Listen, this has nothing to do with a SS strategy. You wont find anyone lower than 25nl playing a proper SS strat. Basically no one anyways. You might find the rare players but that's about it. It will be so rare that you can pretty much discount it.

This is in regards to playing complete droolers who will put their whole stack in with TPNK. Would you rather have a table full of players with 50bbs who play that way or a table full of 100bb+ who play that way? That's the basic reasoning.

#12 6th November 2011, 1:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brank

Listen, this has nothing to do with a SS strategy. You wont find anyone lower than 25nl playing a proper SS strat. Basically no one anyways. You might find the rare players but that's about it. It will be so rare that you can pretty much discount it.

This is in regards to playing complete droolers who will put their whole stack in with TPNK. Would you rather have a table full of players with 50bbs who play that way or a table full of 100bb+ who play that way? That's the basic reasoning.

They aren't playing SS strategy. They're not proper short-stackers, who would have 20bb anyway, and would rathole at 40bb. My challenge is that are very few tables when I play that seem to have less than 3 players with 50bb or less. So what I am doing is ensuring that I have a full stack to my right, preferably a fish, and not worrying too much about short stacks elsewhere at the table. I tend to change tables fairly often anyway.

#13 6th November 2011, 2:03 AM

Ya, sounds like you got it under control.

#14 12th November 2011, 12:34 PM

open smaller when they're still to act...make your steals 2x or 2.5x and your mp opens 3x instead of 3.5x

#15 12th November 2011, 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschooling1

open smaller when they're still to act...make your steals 2x or 2.5x and your mp opens 3x instead of 3.5x

Unfortunately this contradicts all other advice that I have been given about 2nl.

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