Holistic Thinking

This is a discussion on Holistic Thinking within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Holistic thinking is something that escapes most players, and is generally what separates marginal players from great players. Holism, is a way of thinking in ...
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  #1
12th November 2008, 2:13 AM
dsvw56
 
Holistic Thinking

Holistic thinking is something that escapes most players, and is generally what separates marginal players from great players. Holism, is a way of thinking in that the properties of a system are not a function of it's separate parts, instead the system as a whole determines the properties of it's individual parts.

Now if you ask me, that describes a poker table perfectly. The table is the system and the players are the individual parts. A good player is going to have their playing style defined by how the table as a whole is playing. Every time the properties of the table change, so should it's individual parts. So few players realize this. They have a set gameplan, and stick to it rigidly. While they may win, they surely arent maximizing their potential. You need to realize that how you should be playing is a direct function of how everyone else at the table is playing around you. My stats average out to about 17/14/3, but I don't sit down and play close to a 17/14 style every time. I have sessions where I'm playing 9/7 and I have sessions where I'm playing 24/21 and I have sessions where I'm playing 33/28. How I play is a direct result of how the table around me is behaving, and so should you.

Holism, in a looser sense, also applies to individual hands, with the hand being the system, and the streets being it's parts. You need to be thinking of the hand as a whole, and base your decisions on each street by how you want the hand to end up, rather than just acting on each street as it comes up and ending up with a finished hand. You need to have a plan for a hand, and each decision you make is because of your overall plan. Professional No-Limit Hold'em by Flynn, Mehta, and Miller does a great job of teaching this way of thinking about a hand and how to plan hands out.

Basically, they have a two step process. Based on your starting hand, you have a target Stack-to-Pot Ratio (SPR) that you are looking to get on the flop. Then based on the SPR range that you are able to achieve, you play the hand out accordingly. This is a very basic, yet very effective, way to approach hands Holistically. By having an overall plan for how you want a hand to play out, rather than just reacting to situations, you're going to be much less likely to make mistakes.
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  #2
12th November 2008, 2:49 AM
bw07507
 
good stuff dsv, definitely something i need to work on.
  #3
12th November 2008, 3:08 AM
eNTy
 
Good post, and a very interesting topic.

I'm gonna mull it over in my sleep some more.
  #4
12th November 2008, 5:09 AM
PokerVic
 
Online Poker at: PokerStars
Game: Holdem
re: Holistic Thinking poker

But, if I'm part of the system, and I adjust my game based on the system, doesn't that change the system, thus forcing me to change my game to adapt to the system once again?

You make a good point, though. I'd like to think that when I'm playing my best, I'm using of every crumb of information available to make my decisions. They say poker is a game of imperfect information, but there's often a lot more info out there than people realize.
  #5
12th November 2008, 6:46 AM
blankoblanco
 
Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: NL Hold 'em
very nice post, dsvw

i'd like to think i adhere very much to thinking holistically at the poker table. i'm looking to play my opponents rather than to fit my style into some poker identity i've set for myself. like you, i have many sessions where i play drastically different because i think the table climate calls for those adjustments

i'm also always thinking about every piece of the hand as i play it out, using every action throughout the hand to try and create a picture of my opponent's range and their perception of mine. i would say this falls into holism, although you were talking more about looking at the hand in terms of future streets, whereas i'm more talking about looking at past streets. the future ramifications (specifically with regard to setting up good SPR) is probably the part i need to work on most
  #6
12th November 2008, 10:53 AM
dsvw56
 
Glad to see you guys enjoyed this.
  #7
12th November 2008, 3:16 PM
eNTy
 
So do you feel this applies to the micros too ?
Say 10nl ? At the moment I try to play a solid TAG game but also stack off a little light in regards to loose fish who might be shoving any 2 for all I know..

Lately I've been a lot looser on Everest and while it worked in the beginning I am now feeling the downside. I'm really gonna have to bring my game up there.. Everest is a prime example of this I think. The people at 10nl there are so loose/passive it makes you want to cry and laugh at the same time.

So according to holistic thinking we should adjust to that and what? Either play tighter and stack with nuts or play looser and stack off lighter ?
  #8
12th November 2008, 3:44 PM
Gatorsfan88
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: NL Holdem
re: Holistic Thinking poker

what exactly do you mean when you say i'm playing 9/7 or 17/14/3. Still trying to learn my poker lingo on here lol
  #9
12th November 2008, 4:06 PM
eNTy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorsfan88
what exactly do you mean when you say i'm playing 9/7 or 17/14/3. Still trying to learn my poker lingo on here lol
Explained here: stats question!!
  #10
12th November 2008, 4:43 PM
c9h13no3
 
Online Poker at: Most of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNTy
So do you feel this applies to the micros too
Yes. Poker is fundamentally about exploiting the mistakes your opponents are likely to make. Its just easy at micros to play 1 way, since your competition is typically all playing the same way (loose/passive).
  #11
12th November 2008, 10:01 PM
Richyl2008
 
Game: Bumhunting
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNTy
So according to holistic thinking we should adjust to that and what? Either play tighter and stack with nuts or play looser and stack off lighter ?
If it's a lot of loose passive calling station types your facing. Generally you should be playing a tighter game, betting for value more and bluffing/semibluff less often, unless you have a very strong draw you would like to build a pot with. Since they are passive by nature, you need to be careful when they reraise you, otherwise you can just keep betting till they tell you your beat. You can generally assume that most of these players at the micros, will stick to thier game and hardly if ever change gears. So against a table of nits you should be willing to bluff/semibluff more, bet scare cards, but value bet less often because thier calling ranges are tighter and there are less worse hands they will call with that you can get value from.
  #12
12th November 2008, 10:09 PM
eNTy
 
re: Holistic Thinking poker

K thnx. For some reason I run more bluffs vs the loose players on Everest than vs the nits on Stars
 



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