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  Poker - Holding overcards to the flop
 
  #1  
24-11-2005, 7:20 AM
F Paulsson
Monsieur Chateaux
 
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posts: 2,986
Holding overcards to the flop

(Note to strategy forum lurkers! A great way to get involved and learn is to answer these sort of posts without reading what others have said first! Don't be afraid of "getting shot down", in case others feel your way of playing is poor - see it as an opportunity to learn something. A criticism like that is meant to help, not to hurt - appreciate it and the dollars it will help you make. So, read through this, then post your response. If you post the same idea as someone else already has, no harm done; I'm sure Nick has plenty of space on the server to store the extra reply. )

This happens all the time, and I still haven't figured out a way to handle it that I'm comfortable with (I'm inconsistent and lack a real strategy for this):

I hold, say, A♠K♦. Flop is seen with two other people.
Flop comes 9♦6♣2♥

This is merely an example, but the point being that there are no obvious draws on the table. I'm also, in the scenarios given below, not saying anything about how the others have bet before me on the flop (when I'm not in first position). This is because I'm looking for a strategy, not help with a specific hand.

Some different scenarios (limit HE):

1. In early position
1a) I'm the pre-flop raiser into two limpers who are after me.
1b) I'm in the blinds and there was a raise and a cold-call before me
1c) I'm in the blinds and completed or checked for deception.

2. In middle position
2a) I'm the pre-flop raiser, and got a late position caller and the BB with me.
2b) I cold called a preflop raise and the button did as well.
2c) I three-bet preflop, and the late position and the original raiser both called.

3. In late position
3a) Two limpers to me, I raise, blinds fold, and limpers both call.
3b) A raise and a three-bet before me, which I called.
3c) Two limpers to me, I only call (not likely with AKo, but for the sake of argument)

I'd love to see how different people play this. I've seen loads of people chase with overcard hands as poor as QTo, and I'm trying to figure out where the profitability line goes.

Sidenote: Sklansky suggests that KQ is a better hand to chase overcards with than AK, because people tend to play Ax a lot more often than Kx. Therefore, if a K or a Q hits, you likely have the best hand, whereas you might be in trouble if you pair your ace on the turn (as someone might have two pair).
 

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  #2  
24-11-2005, 8:18 AM
xdmanx007
CardsChat Regular
 
Location: Indiana
Plays at: Paradise
Posts: 1,871
Personally what I do totally depends on my opponent and how many bets are in the pot, but I suppose the most important question you need to ask yourself is if I spike an ace or king will it be the best hand? Now preflop AK likes to get as many bets in the pot as you can get. If the flop misses you, you want to get as much information as you can in the "cheap" betting round but you also must have the discipline to release AK if you are getting resistance on a ragged flop.

Early position I am likely to pull a check raise on the flop reason being if the turn doesn't improve your hand; you are quite likely to see the river for free, at the very least if you get reraised on the flop you are likely hammered and can much more easily release the hand. Again this is opponent dependent no need to take this hand too far against a calling station, he will pay you off on a later hand.

Middle position I am firing! bet raise or reraise to a max of 3 bets if it is capped go ahead and save the last bet you are at best drawing to 6 outs, quite likely WAY behind, or worst case you are drawing virtually dead to a set. You've made your stand, fold and move onto the next hand.

Late position I'll play it virtually identical to middle.

Like I always say there are no right or wrong ways to play a hand just bad,good, or best!
  #3  
24-11-2005, 12:08 PM
Mr Fugly
Rookie
 
Location: West Sussex
Likes: Holdem
Posts: 19
(Without reading the other posts)

From how i have read/understood the discription of the hands. I would make another medium size raise after the flop to try and see where i stand with the hand.
Before the flop you are only behind to a few posible starting hands. And, like you said, the flop does not look like it has helped many hand combinations, so i would make another raise and see what happens with the callers or if i get re raised. "Normally" a good indication of where you stand in the hand.

For what it is worth, that is how i would "Try" and tackle that one. (Right or wrong be interested to see other comments )

Fug`s
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