Help with understanding my red line

When playing $2NL I had a positive red line and negative blue line. Since moving up to $5NL my graph goes the opposite way and looks like this, what does this mean:

Attached Images

Amount Won in USD over Hands Played.jpg (25.7 KB, 182 views)

Same as it did at 2nl. Money won without showdown.

I know literally what it means.

Was referring to what has potentially changed in my game since moving up in stakes for this to change so dramatically.

Sorry, I was just having a laugh - I coulden't resist

Seriously though, I'm guessing it means your calling to much and folding to much post flop. Is this 6max or full ring, that will probarly make a big difference to the actual red line in most cases as 6max as we all know is a lot looser and your ranges should be lower.

Mine used to make a decending mark like that and consistently, yet I was still making a postive green line (profit) so I coulden't understand it. My "won" at showdown and actual profit was more than the red line so was still showing a profit, HOWEVER I did and was told I was playing to many hands by limping and calling in spots I shoulden't of been doing. I was folding to more 3 bets post flop and because it was 5nl it was more "scary" calling the standard 3 bet of someone so would fold. Maybe you're playing like this in the sense of calling/limping to much then folding. You might need to start playing more aggresive and when you do enter a hand, enter it with a lot of aggression, no flat calling their standard 3bets, re-raise them or better still, when raised preflop and you're going to play a hand then re-raise instead of just flatting and if you're pushed and think they are solid and you aren't holding your aces/kings then let it go. Don't just flat call then diaster hits if you hit a card yet do not know if you're beat and putting yourself ina difficult situation. I so much prefere to just either get it done with p-flop or post flop unless I'm holding a monster.

Recently, all my lines are postive lines, I don't know if this will change but I guess I have changed my game to a more aggresive one. I used to be far to passive and all to often folding when I entered a raised pot to start with. I decided to change my game to being the aggresor and so far, it's worked.

LOL

Filter out your blind play and see what it looks like.

Yeah, red line typically has a strong correlation to blind play. Folding too much, defending too much, etc.

Line up your stats from 2nl and compare them to your new 5nl stats.

Filter hands where I posted the blind uit didn't voluntarily add any further money in?

No just take out the 2 blind positions. On the 1st filter tab in pt3 set position <=6 I think should be correct (look at the positions tab after setting the filter to make sure all positions other than the blinds are listed then check out the same graph you posted earlier).

Ok, understood - will do this this evening and post the result. Thanks

OK, the first graph is for $5NL with blinds removed - so both lines are positive:

The second is my graph for $2NL with blinds removed:

And the third is my graph for all time with blinds included showing the exact point that I changed limits and both lines headed in opposite directions.

Does this tell me anything...?

Attached Images

Amount Won in USD over Hands Played $5NL no blinds.jpg (27.6 KB, 141 views)

Amount Won in USD over Hands Played. $2NL blinds removed.jpg (27.9 KB, 141 views)

Amount Won in USD over Hands Played. All levels with blinds.jpg (25.3 KB, 142 views)

Since all of your NSD loses are coming from the blinds you're very likely calling too much OOP. It's actually likely that the same leak was there at 2nl but with slightly more passive opponents it wasn't costing you quite as much.

What are your stats like from the blinds (break it down by position)? VPIP/PFR/3bet/WTSD/W$SD

My stats from the blinds at $5nl:

Small Blind:
VPIP: 16.45
PFR: 8.97
3bet: 2.15
WTSD: 23.86
W$SD: 55.48

Big Blind:
VPIP: 9.61
PFR: 3.35
3bet: 2.40
WTSD: 22.82
W$SD: 50.06

And at $2NL:

Small Blind
VPIP: 22.58
PFR: 13.43
3bet: 3.14
WTSD: 24.55
W$SD: 47.32

Big Blind:
VPIP: 10.46
PFR: 5.73
3bet: 4.31
WTSD: 23.95
W$SD: 42.48

How are your stats higher in the small blind?

This and you're absurdly tight from the BB.

I think its painfully obvious you have issues playing out of the blinds pokerman. Go post some hands where you're in blind defense/stealing from the SB spots.

Just completing the blind when it's folded around instead of raising.Think I just got leveled o

I play very tightly out of the blinds, even at 6max, to give you an idea, ATs, AJo is about the minimum I will attempt to steal the BB with from the small blind and I make it around 18c against the average 25/13. This is very tight for 6max but I like to avoid difficult spots OOP as my pre-flop play is far better than my post-flop!

I might raise with KQs, AQ or a mid PP from the SB vs 2 limpers of average VPIP.

If you are in the BB you can count the limpers with position on you and add a BB/limper to 18c. I generally ignore the SB as I an ALWAYS happy to play poker post-flop against him and his weak completion.

RARELY just complete the SB as it will probably be a huge leak. Ok so its only 3c but how much more will your spew off post flop with SPGK vs 2 opponents that have position on you?

Try to anticipate and avoid difficult spots even if they are a little +EV. There will always be the idiot that stacks off with K3o vs KK, happened to me yesterday... I think thats like nearly the best matchup you can get!?

Attached Images

Untitled.jpg (75.3 KB, 109 views)

More than likely this is where I am completing the small blind...something I will recitify. Against a ton of limpers though it's tempting in this spot to play ATC because of the huge pot odds.

OK, I didn't expect to be told I was too tight, again, something to look at - what would you expect to see those stats be from the BB?

Yeah, C9, I have plenty of issues but I have the determination to iron them out with help from CCers like yourself. Will post some hands in the HA section later tonight and link from here.

I'm really struggling looking through my database to get any leads here...

Whether stealing or defending against a steal all the charts are positive for both BB and SB. Even completing from the small blind shows only a small loss.

On hands where I have posted the SB and voluntarily put more money in I'm winning to 75.95 BB/100. So this is can't be a problem....

The biggest loser by far is when I get a free look from the BB. This is a massive loser overall. It would seem that when I get a free look from the BB I'm finding myself in marginal spots that are spewing me money. Getting a free look from the BB indicates a fairly weak hand on my part yet I am going to showdown nearly 50% of the time....is this my major leak?

What is your WR (LR) from each of the blinds?

First look to see if you're losing more than if you were to just ch/f the flop. Second, your probably getting to showdown so often because someone limps, you check and it goes ch/ch all the way. Look through the hands where you've lost 20bb, 40bb and 100bb pots individually and see if it looks like you're spewing.

My winrate is:

BB -27.66
SB - -4.22

However interestingly by Win % is:

BB= 21.87%
SB = 9.72%

That's high from the BB and low from the SB. What's your overall sample size at 5nl?

About 85K

Overall you're combined loss rate from the blinds is pretty close to normal but you should be able to do better than you have been from the BB.

Take a look at hands where you see a free flop from the BB. What types of hands are you doing this with? Are there medium pairs in those hands? Broadways? Suited Aces?

All pairs up to and including 99 has been checked preflop - though a lot more with 22-55.

Broadways excepts AK have been checked and all suited Aces up to AQs.

With one or two limpers are these all raising hands?

Small pairs can go either way depending on who / how many limpers. You can certainly raise a lot of those hands for value though. I mean checking your option with AQs just is completely wtf. At 5nl you're going to run into a lot of both limp/folders and limp/callers. It pays to figure out who is who.

The limp folders you can abuse pretty widely from the BB because they're just free $$. The limp callers you need to further classify. Some of them limp/call with ATC and then fold anything less than TP. These guys a goldmines and you should raise their limps liberally from all positions. Then you have the sticky guys who limp/call and then get to SD with pretty much any piece. Against these guys you can check your weaker Aces and Kings but hands like KJ+/AT+/88+ can be raised for value because they'll give 3 streets with worse.

One special spot is when it folds around to the SB and he limps, I raise to 4x 95% of the time in that case. We're guaranteed position and initiative and that's a pretty profitable place to be. The only times I do not raise here is with complete trash hands (bottom 10-15%) AND a super station in the SB.

Thanks WVH will definitely pay attention to my blind play over the next few months and see if I can turn this around a bit.

What would be a more optimal VPIP/PFR

Say:

9/9 in SB and;
11/10 in BB?

You want to steal a bit more from the SB depending on villain, like a slightly tighter CO (again depending on villain, if he's a loose passive station don't go opening 67s) and you need to be flatting quite a bit in the BB against SB raises as you have position. Also need to be raising almost all of those SB completes (when it's only the SB in the hand) as his line is super weak. The action will likely go fold pre or fold flop when he doesn't hit anything.

How wide should we be 3 bet restealing from the BB against a btn stealer? Say a 15/12 reg? I would probably 3 bet all the obvious (QQ+ AQs+) but what about pocket pairs 66+? or hands that could flop well if called such as QJs KJs etc?


I also read that you should be less concerned with protecting your blinds against a steal as you should your button - meaning 3 bet or call to defend on the button against villians that open a lot from the HJ and CO..?

We want to protect our button more because we're protecting our position against an already weak range. From the blinds we'll always be out of position against a BTN/CO steal and it sucks. Giving up and folding will lose us less money than defending with most of our hands in the blinds, whereas on the button we can make weaker hands profitable because of position and get more value from our stronger hands when we control the pot more easily. It's your skill in the blinds that determine which hands are profitable for you to defend with or at least lose you less money than just folding.

When we're playing the BB vs a SB who opens wide it's a similar spot to our BTN vs CO and we should play it accordingly. Protecting your blind vs a wide stealing SB is very different to a BTN steal.

Personally I'm 3-betting mainly hands I'm comfortable getting it in with JJ+/AK as a standard but obv varies against villain. I'm flatting and playing positionally with hands like AJ/KQ/KJs/TT.

As for pairs I'm not quite sure and I'd appreciate input on that, atm I believe I'm flatting as a standard against a SB OR.

EDIT: I thought I should add that if SB is stealing wide then he's often a reg (fish like to complete) so we can start adding bluffs into our 3-bet range as he's going to be folding a lot, not wanting to play OOP. Should he call then we can peg his range fairly easily and we get to play IP with an implied odds hand (A5s/65s etc).

Just to further look into this and having read a few other stats analysis threads it seems fairly common to have a higher VPIP in the SB as the BB...I guess this is down to opening a much wider range when folded around in SB. Discuss?

I'm the first to admit I steal too much from the SB and get myself in some tricky spots OOP when called - something I'm tightening up on...