help with live 1/2 nlh ring game

hello all.

Glad to have found this bbs!

My question is.

I have had a few big nights at the tables but far to many moderate losses. Was hoping to get some advice from a player with a high win rate at the 1/2 nlh live games....casinos and charity games alike.

My approach has been to play mega tight untill i can build a cushon to loosen up my game. The games are very loose agg. with alot of regular players. Any advice as how to fix my leaks would be mucho awsome.

ps. I did do a search here for this topic but came up short so if I'm missing something please point me in the right direction!

thanks all!

Welcome, you've found a great site, hope you enjoy what you find here and get some valuable lessons...

Your questions are a bit broad, and there aren't any quick silver bullets you can apply to answer them. As a fellow newbie, though, I'll suggest a couple of ways to participate here that will get you started -

• Check out the Golden Archives - there are some fantastic discussions there with tons of insights - my personal suggestion, start with ChuckTs 10K post, hugely useful, relatively easy to digest...
• Much of the discussion of NLHE here is geared toward online play. This doesn't mean it doesn't apply to live play, but you'll generally need to adapt what you read to a live context. For example, ChuckTs 10K post, in addition to generally describing playing styles and how to react to them, explains a tool called PokerTracker that doesn't apply to a live game - but what that tool measures DOES DIRECTLY apply to live games...
• Check out discussions of general style and try to figure out why it works for the players who like using those styles. The first time I read posts from players I now have nothing but respect for, I thought they were off their rockers - but understanding their reasoning provides a deeper understanding of the game, no matter what your style nor how much you try to use the strategies they use.
• Post hands that were questionable for you in the Ring Game Hand Analysis - questionable whether you won or lost, you can learn a lot from critique of the play of winning hands (how could I have extracted more value?) as well as losing hands (how should I be reading this situation and avoid stacking off with the worst of it? ). Read the guidelines before posting there, though...
• Participate in the discussions of hands that are posted by others- you'll learn a lot from the general discussion, but also of reactions to your own statements.

People here are very gracious with their time and commentary - enjoy!

thanks for the info...will check out the archives!

the question is very broad as you say.

Let me refrase...

What have others noticed to be a common challenge at live 1/2 nlh tables at casinos were the players seem to be very familiar with one another.

Reason being that, well, I seem to be in over my head at this one casino in particular. 1-2 at other venues seems to be what i would expect in skill level, but at this one they seem to be playing a different game alltogether.

The raises are 12 and 15 over the 2 dollar blind preflop. Is this the kinda thing I should expect? I used to play 2-5 at another casino and rarely saw this much action preflop.

Interesting - 6x to 7.5xBB is common preflop? Are there a lot of limpers? Generally 3x to 6x is a more standard range for preflop raising, unless there are a lot of limpers.

My guess is that there are some loose passive players at this game, or loose passive non-regulars who just joined, and some of the more aggressive players have figured out they'll get paid off with big preflop raising - this happens in one of the games I'm a regular in when a couple of loose passive players (or tourists) sit down at the table (a few of even the regulars are loose passives and haven't figured this out yet - no coincidence that they also happen to be the most consistent losers in the game).

If this is a regular feature of the game, you'll need to figure out how to combat it. Being tight until you hit, as you said, sounds like a good initial strategy - but once you loosen up, position becomes more important (don't play speculative hands from early position) and hand reading skills become more important.

Try searching the forum for discussions of position and suggestions about how to expand the range of hands you'll play from which position. Also look at fold equity and the advantages of being the first to open a pot with a raise vs. calling a raise (gap concept).

And for goodness sake, never limp into a pot in this kind of game without a really really really good reason - or, just don't limp at all - you're a sitting duck if you do!

Good luck!

thanks very much for the reply.

I do avoid limping at these tables in any position. Most times I don't even have the option to.

The preflop is crazy.... and I waited to play a hand for a good long while till I could figure out what or rather why this was happining so frequently. I still am not sure.

In a situation like this would it be prudent to call these kinda raises in late position with hands like JTos QJos?

I feel so timid doing so knowing there will be a continuation that I most likely will not call without hiting a monster.

I've found that playing mega tight doesn't get you very far. The other players notice your habits and won't pay you off. You do need to loosen up a little to get action, and if you find yourself afraid to play a reasonable hand you need to walk away from the table. One player in particular I know of only plays maybe 1 hand in 30, always entering with a raise, and NOBODY calls her unless they just arrived or weren't paying attention. I've never seen her increase her stack by more than about 20% after several hours.

If the game is too wild for you, don't play it. It's that simple. Some tables have way too many maniacs to play a normal game. If you don't have the stomache to reraise with QQ preflop and fire out a bet after a K high flop with it, you shouldn't be at the table. Stick to lower stakes online or softer tables until you build up a bankroll.

Mike Caro's book on tells is good as well.

What's the rake? Most charity events the rake is so high that no one wins. Which is actually a good thing since the goal is fun/donate money and not profit.

I see what your saying about not playing at all if the table is to wild for me or if I don't have the eggs to re-raise.

After reading a bit...I'm starting to think that maybe the raises are so high preflop for intimidation to steal blinds. Which is what is tought for tourney games but at a cash table there is not much reason to steal a $3 pot. Maybe these players are mis-using information they have read and I should be taking more advantage of these situations?

Think I might try this theory out next time and limp/raise preflop to see. Of course I will wait till I have a decent hand to back it up should I be cought with a call.

A few things you might want to consider:

- Definitely don't make flat calling with JT/QJ type hands your reaction to the kind of preflop action you're describing. These hands are easily dominated and you'll rarely flop a hand that you can bet with confidence. Keep folding them in raised pots.

- Chances are a lot of these players aren't there to win - rather, they're there to have a good time. You can use that to your advantage. If everyone's laughing / drinking / generally having a good time while they're playing their crazy game, you can make it seem like you're playing looser than you are. If you're sitting there not saying a word and not playing any hands, people will take notice - you're the guy who's harshing their buzz. If you're joining in the conversation and having a laugh with them though, people will take less notice of how you're playing and if it seems like you're 'one of the gang' they'll often pay you off in pots where otherwise they would've gotten out of a tight player's way.

- Raise big with your big hands preflop. If someone's already put in a bet and you wake up with KK or AK or something else premium, raise it big. Often the loose and gambling type players will adopt an "any two cards can win" approach and will get all in with you before the flop with all sorts of garbage.

Hope this helps.

at my local casino i go in playing tight, waiting to see who is donating that night
overall the games are so weak, that i just play an abc type, alot more than i would online

great advice everybody...thanks much!

I should start getting more into the convo around the table...I don't do that much and could be something very simple to remedee. I will post after my next game(which won't be for another week)

I will say this though....I already feel more confident after these pep talks!

Thanks again!