Has laying position reversed now???

Hi all.

I`ve been playing poker for 3 years now and even in that time I have noticed a big strategy change. However, it could just be me

One thing is position - I find now that people acting first are more likely to raise than they did, almost taking away a lot of the `last to act` opportunities.

Any thoughts on this guys?

A lot of top poker books are telling players to use UTG as a strong pos post flop, they are saying a raise would not be the worst thing in the world, they say it shows strength. Also a lot of players online do not look at pos, they just like at their hold cards, and they play accordingly. Hope this helps, im gonna look into this more to see if I can get more info on it

3-bet EP raisers imo

My experiences over the past 3 years suggest that folks have been learning HOW to raise! Not just from early position , but from every position.

3 years ago was still online infancy, and many of the raisers at the time were experienced live gamers, while many of the new online folks were dealing with scared money, and they knew they were dealing with scared money. One of the things that changes anyones game is coming to the understanding that scared money thinking is dead end thinking.

So yes, more folks are raising now.

It's called "aggression" and I agree that it is much more prevalent in poker nowadays.

Me too.

Also, the the nice thing about having an aggressive early position raiser in front of you is that it eliminates agonizing over whether or not to slow play that monster hand you are holding. His/her money is already on the table for you!

Disagree. If they bet, you still act last. You get to see what they do and thus narrow their range down while you have not acted and your range is still the same as it was on the previous street. I don't think you quite understand the concept of why being in position is an advantage. It isn't just getting a chance at a free card.

gives you complete control at table in terms of raising and seeing free card. also great way to disguise hand in late position

Not sure if I`m with u or not here.

I am talking about people seem to be more inclined to fire out a bet in early position more than they did.

I understand what u r saying to an extent, but if u r sitting with 2nd pair/ poo kicker and someone who has been LAG puts in a pot size bet, asking u to call of 1/2 your stack position means jack - IMO.

I've seen this in tournament play. Usually one guy starts to raise UTG almost every orbit. Usually just before or just after the money bubble. If you reraise in position he runs away. Most people don't notice it. If he hits the flop he keeps playing otherwise its check/fold. If you catch him once or twice he calms down for a while. Usually don't see it in freerolls but I've seen it in 2 and 5 dollar buy-in tourneys.
And by the responses to this thread nobody really notices it.
I've tried it a couple times and if you are on a tight table it works real well.
I call it "The reverse steal"
Probably the ones saying its bullshit are the ones doing it.

no it doesn't. If you think this bet is only made with strong hands you fold easily, thanking him for saving a potential cbet if he had check-raised. If he does this a ton of the time and you think your hand beats his range than you shove. The tough part is when you don't know what this means for his range, but that's what poker's about, disguising your own range and trying to narrow down your opponent's.

Also note that positional advantage increases the deeper stacks are. So position is much more important in a deep-stacked cash game than in this situation where you only have 2x the pot in your stack.

On that note also you shouldn't really have mid pair crap kicker when stacks are this shallow. You shouldn't have raised or called a raise preflop with a hand that can make 2nd pair crap kicker when stacks are this short.

I think I'm forced to agree with you on all points. One possible situation where second pair crap kicker may happen is if you have K8 and the flop comes AK6 rainbow. You were hoping he had a bare Ace before the flop, but now you hope he has a middle pair instead, was getting over-aggressive, as is trying to represent the ace. You were silly to call the raise, looking for a miracle situation, didn't get it, now stuck about what to do.

That's just what I was thinking.

Too many people think they lose their positional advantage when someone in front of them bets.

You still have a strong advantage, even if someone moves all in ahead of you on the flop. For example, if you flop a decent hand in a cash game, but it is not a hand you would lose your whole stack on, you would like to bet it and get called. If you are out of position and bet it, and your opponent goes all in, now you have to fold. However, if you reverse your positions and he goes all in before you have a chance to act, now you can fold and you save the bet you were going to make.

I think that is a good illustration of why position is an advantage no matter what your opponents do ahead of you.

Having players at your table who do not understand this concept is one of the best things you can hope for. A player that understands starting hand selection, relative hand strengths, how much to bet, how to read people, etc., but DOES NOT use or understand the advantage of positon...well, he might as well just give you his money.

I especially like over agressive online player that get themselves committed by playing a hand out of position. I am inclined to raise most times on the flop if I flop a set, but some of the best pots I have won have come when I flop top set on an unconnected rainbow board and a player out of position bets the flop. I can now safely call without raising and he, being an overagressive online moron, will, almost 100% of the time, make a huge bet on the turn to chase me out. Now when I move all in, he has become committed to whatever hand he has pushed so hard from a bad seat and I rake his chips over and start stacking them. That is an amazing feeling. And you don't even have to work for it because the out of position player did all the work for you.

I've honestly run into the fact that a good majority of online players don't respect position at all. I don't know if that's because they assume people are only position betting or they just don't know what they're doing. Secondly, another frustrating trend I've noticed is people are also a lot more inclined to call a "continuation" bet after the flop even if they have absolutely nothing.

There's no place for hoping in poker. When stacks are that short (such that pot bet is half your stack) there is no reason to even think about calling or raising K8. None.

Why is this frustrating? If it's frustrating than you're c-betting too much. If they will call c-bets with absolutely nothing, wait for when you have something and value bet the hell out of them.

from my database :

Saw Flop = True & Last to Act = True 128.2PTBB/100
Saw Flop = True & Last to Act = False 8.3PTBB/100

That's how much position matters. What they actually do means nothing, you still get the added information.