Handling calling stations and maniacs

#1 30th August 2009, 3:57 PM

You know the guy who plays absolutely appaulingly, whether his weakness is calling or raising doesn't matter here, just that he does one or the other the vast majority of the time.

Unless they get very lucky, that particular player will lose chips to me. That's a given.

But what I'm noticing is that when I'm at the table with a particularly consistant calling station or maniac, my proffit from the rest of the table goes down dramatically (frequently into the negatives).

The presence of a calling station means I can't bluff anyone else because this guy is still in the hand. And the maniac forces me to fold in a lot of situations where I could otherwise have an expected proffit.

Is there a trick to playing at a table with a calling station/maniac, something more effective than falling back on playing straight forward abc poker?

Here's something else I'm noticing, and I don't really want to admit to believing this because I know goes against common wisdom but I'm convinced I'm right. Sitting to the immediate left of a maniac is the worst seat at the table. I win big with them on my left and lose/break even with them on my right. Here's why: If they raise most pots, and you're next to act, you've got the whole table to act behind you. If you choose to make a stand, you've still got to get through four or five other players behind you and frequently they'll be limp-raising the maniac and you'll be caught in between. Quite simply, being to their left makes you first to act in as many pots as he raises.

And post flop even out of position you know what he's going to do a good amount of the time, because of this I'd rather play him out of position than have to call a raise or make a re-raise with half of the table behind me on every hand that I choose to play.

Any thoughts?

#2 31st August 2009, 2:55 PM

playing calling stations shouldnt be that hard just wait for a monster hand and bamn strike but you have to be patient

#3 1st September 2009, 4:56 AM

There are a few maniacs at the live home games I play at. They will go all-in and rebuy over and over again. I don't mind because it builds up a nice pot, but it can be frustrating when u lose with a nice hand. I try to be patient and wait for the end of rebuys.

#4 1st September 2009, 5:07 AM

I so welcome the calling station and I prefer to be following them. As long as I'm playing my game and not pushing out of position, I need not worry about followers.

A better solution to your problem is a good table location service to find you just the right table for profitable pickings.

Good luck

#5 1st September 2009, 6:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerkid123

You know the guy who plays absolutely appaulingly, whether his weakness is calling or raising doesn't matter here, just that he does one or the other the vast majority of the time.

Unless they get very lucky, that particular player will lose chips to me. That's a given.

But what I'm noticing is that when I'm at the table with a particularly consistant calling station or maniac, my proffit from the rest of the table goes down dramatically (frequently into the negatives).

The presence of a calling station means I can't bluff anyone else because this guy is still in the hand. And the maniac forces me to fold in a lot of situations where I could otherwise have an expected proffit.

Is there a trick to playing at a table with a calling station/maniac, something more effective than falling back on playing straight forward abc poker?

The cs requires ABC poker - however, your frustration w him should be amply paid off when he calls down w second pair - value bet him to death. The maniac presents more possibilities, since he's frequently going to be playing air and will scare everyone else off, so selectively playing back at him where the board presents opportunities to do so is profitable.

Here's something else I'm noticing, and I don't really want to admit to believing this because I know goes against common wisdom but I'm convinced I'm right. Sitting to the immediate left of a maniac is the worst seat at the table. I win big with them on my left and lose/break even with them on my right. Here's why: If they raise most pots, and you're next to act, you've got the whole table to act behind you. If you choose to make a stand, you've still got to get through four or five other players behind you and frequently they'll be limp-raising the maniac and you'll be caught in between. Quite simply, being to their left makes you first to act in as many pots as he raises.

Are you 3betting him when he's on your right? If you're flatting behind him, you're inviting all the rest of the table to flat behind you. You need to dump your speculative hands from EP and MP if you're simply flatting behind a lagtard - in EP and MP, if I'm playing back at this guy, it's almost always w a 3bet. Flatting speculative hands here should be reserved for BTN, maybe CO.

And post flop even out of position you know what he's going to do a good amount of the time, because of this I'd rather play him out of position than have to call a raise or make a re-raise with half of the table behind me on every hand that I choose to play.

I never like being oop, too hard to extract value. Not sure what stakes you're playing, but only the biggest lagtard idiots will continue a pure bluff ip against somebody calling oop - an oop caller, unless they're really bad, should have a hand that'll be difficult to get him off of, and any competent lagtard will recognize this.

Any thoughts?

Italics/bold above...

#6 1st September 2009, 7:48 AM

Just do the straight way. That will work!
You can play a few more hands if you got a lot of chips but try to wait for good hands.....

#7 4th September 2009, 12:40 AM

I run across call stations and maniacs all the time. There is no magic here. Patience + carefull hand selection = massive payoffs. Value bet every street. Even if there is 4 to a flush or 4 to a straight a CS is going to call you down with their pocket 2's. Whatever you do, don't bluff.

For the maniac, patiently wait for a strong hand and shove it it. You will get called.

Sam Farha, 'against a bad player.....I HAVE TO HAVE A HAND'

Above all, be patient.

#8 4th September 2009, 3:07 AM

calling stations are easy if u just follow certain rules....dont continuation bet too much cause they will call with bottom pair....if u get a good hand just decide how much u want to bet and push.....i am super patient with maniacs and when i get a big hand i check raise him

#9 5th September 2009, 7:03 PM

Here's something else I'm noticing, and I don't really want to admit to believing this because I know goes against common wisdom but I'm convinced I'm right. Sitting to the immediate left of a maniac is the worst seat at the table. I win big with them on my left and lose/break even with them on my right. Here's why: If they raise most pots, and you're next to act, you've got the whole table to act behind you. If you choose to make a stand, you've still got to get through four or five other players behind you and frequently they'll be limp-raising the maniac and you'll be caught in between. Quite simply, being to their left makes you first to act in as many pots as he raises

So why 'take a stand'? Having the maniac to your right is far better than to your left. You know he's playing a wide range so this gives you the oppurtunity to raise & isolate them. How can this be a bad thing?
Why would you be first to act in as many pots as he raises?... when you're isolating or calling with position???

#10 9th September 2009, 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Here's something else I'm noticing, and I don't really want to admit to believing this because I know goes against common wisdom but I'm convinced I'm right. Sitting to the immediate left of a maniac is the worst seat at the table. I win big with them on my left and lose/break even with them on my right. Here's why: If they raise most pots, and you're next to act, you've got the whole table to act behind you. If you choose to make a stand, you've still got to get through four or five other players behind you and frequently they'll be limp-raising the maniac and you'll be caught in between. Quite simply, being to their left makes you first to act in as many pots as he raises

So why 'take a stand'? Having the maniac to your right is far better than to your left. You know he's playing a wide range so this gives you the oppurtunity to raise & isolate them. How can this be a bad thing?
Why would you be first to act in as many pots as he raises?... when you're isolating or calling with position???

Isn't this the same thing?

Any, its more profitable to have loose player to your right and a tight player to your left.

#11 9th September 2009, 7:00 PM

I'd much rather play maniacs than calling stations because I feel their easier to read and their more likely to pay you off big...the one thing which I have noticed tends to ring true for most maniacs is they love to make monster bluffs and raises when they are weak and check/call and then river pounce when their strong...thus I tend to become very cautious when a maniac suddenly stops playing aggressively against me in a hand. If you are getting smooth called, slow down and if they are re-raising firing at the river and you have a strong hand call. Calling stations are tougher, you will be less likely to know they are trapping since they will flat call almost all of the time...in addition they will not do your betting for you when you have a monster.

#12 18th September 2009, 10:05 PM

I agree with you about the calling stations. Rule of thumb, never bluff a calling station. Ok, so you lose the bluffing, but you gain the value bet, get a hand and they will pay you off. I see players check it down once they are heads up with the calling station, this is a mistake, bet your top pair good kicker every street.

As for the Maniac, I agree with you again. Sure, money flows clockwise around the table, but, it does flow all the way. So, I'd much rather have the action to my left and be in position, then have it to my right and feel like my blinds are being stolen.

#13 13th October 2009, 9:46 AM

Thanks slycbnew for your thoughts.

This is key:
I never like being oop, too hard to extract value. Not sure what stakes you're playing, but only the biggest lagtard idiots will continue a pure bluff ip against somebody calling oop - an oop caller, unless they're really bad, should have a hand that'll be difficult to get him off of, and any competent lagtard will recognize this.

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