Hand Chart for Playing Position for Beginners and Veterans

#1 1st March 2008, 3:55 AM

For those of you who are starting to play position and those of you who need a refresher.. this is a good reference..

#2 1st March 2008, 4:06 AM

Hey, I'm from Arkansas too! Woo pig!

#3 1st March 2008, 7:29 AM

ugh im hating that chart. No offense.

Ok so is it for 6max or FR. If its FR im sticking with the above.

#4 1st March 2008, 7:30 AM

Although good of you to post it. Probably just dated a bit though IMO.

#5 1st March 2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchrs

Although good of you to post it. Probably just dated a bit though IMO.

yea i agree... some of it i'd like to agree with but i just cant.

#6 1st March 2008, 12:28 PM

this is my opinion so dont take it offensive, personally i think that chart is a joke. any advanced good poker player can play any hand, suited not sutied small or big. that chart is like for 1$ games seriously. I really dont like it.

#7 1st March 2008, 12:29 PM

sry forgot to add, just like munch mentioned, I'm glad that ur actually posting and try to contribute to the site

#8 1st March 2008, 1:31 PM

I disagree with is the 'Play in every position'. Play J-9 in EP just because its suited? Way too loose, IMO. You might as well have the whole chart highlight blue.

"...But it was sooted!"

#9 1st March 2008, 2:07 PM

10-9 raise fro0m every position yet only play a,9 from mis position, does that mean 10-9>a-9. Also why does it rank q-8>k-8, id rather have k,8 over q,8. It also missed out, on the button, playable = ATC

#10 1st March 2008, 2:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_tiger

any advanced good poker player can play any hand, suited not sutied small or big.

Um, what? The only way that comment makes any sense at all is if by "play any hand" you mean that an advanced good poker player plays certain hands by knowing that the correct way to play certain hands is to fold them. While I don't like the chart either (especially not for beginners as it claims), the comment above is (at best) a total mis-representation of advanced skill. Had you thrown in some phrases about knowing when to play lesser hands and knowing when to throw crap away, then I'd have been more inclined to agree. But your comment basically says if you're an advanced player you can play any two cards at any time, and that's just non-sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch0723

does that mean 10-9>a-9.

It's probably looked at more favorably because when both are suited, you can make straights with the T9 and three other cards. With A9, any straight you make will utilize only one card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch0723

Also why does it rank q-8>k-8, id rather have k,8 over q,8.

Probably for the same reason as above. Q8 makes straights together, K8 only makes straights with one card at a time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch0723

It also missed out, on the button, playable = ATC in certain circumstances, though we all know that you cannot simply play ATC every time simply because you're on the button

FYP

#11 1st March 2008, 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

Um, what? The only way that comment makes any sense at all is if by "play any hand" you mean that an advanced good poker player plays certain hands by knowing that the correct way to play certain hands is to fold them. While I don't like the chart either (especially not for beginners as it claims), the comment above is (at best) a total mis-representation of advanced skill. Had you thrown in some phrases about knowing when to play lesser hands and knowing when to throw crap away, then I'd have been more inclined to agree. But your comment basically says if you're an advanced player you can play any two cards at any time, and that's just non-sense.

It's probably looked at more favorably because when both are suited, you can make straights with the T9 and three other cards. With A9, any straight you make will utilize only one card.

Probably for the same reason as above. Q8 makes straights together, K8 only makes straights with one card at a time.

FYP

not what i meant sry...i mean any good player can use their position to their advantage like lets say i have Q2 in late position and there are really tight players on sb and bb ok. everyone folds and they check we know they are aggresive and flop comes for ex umm A K 3 if they both check and i have position on them im going to bet at it right? so if they check raise i fold if not i got a nice a little pot with junk hand which says on the chart not to play it. But lets say u know bb or someone after you is loose and super aggresive u obviously lay it down or if its a good player that you dont want to mess with. you see what i mean? poker is not just about your cards as you all know

#12 1st March 2008, 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_tiger

not what i meant sry...i mean any good player can use their position to their advantage like lets say i have Q2 in late position and there are really tight players on sb and bb ok. everyone folds and they check we know they are aggresive and flop comes for ex umm A K 3 if they both check and i have position on them im going to bet at it right? so if they check raise i fold if not i got a nice a little pot with junk hand which says on the chart not to play it. But lets say u know bb or someone after you is loose and super aggresive u obviously lay it down or if its a good player that you dont want to mess with. you see what i mean? poker is not just about your cards as you all know

Yep, that's what I though you meant.

#13 1st March 2008, 3:10 PM

Kids, kids!!!!

This is a chart for those who have no clue! The difference between a new player playing 56o and an experienced player playing 56o is huge.

As a basic guide, for those who have NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED SUCH THINGS, this chart will do no harm. None at all.

Thing is tho, that by the time a new player gets around to finding this or any other chart on the net, he will no longer be a new player, and will have probably experienced much disappointment, and a longing to improve his game, which taken at face value means they aren't noobs anymore.

I suggest that just because it is done in pretty colors and is big enough for folks with failing eyesight to see, that we forgive it's shortcomings......

#14 1st March 2008, 4:29 PM

I made one of these too, only I based mine on hands that I have an actual pos EV with, open raising. It's pretty shocking.

#15 1st March 2008, 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

It's probably looked at more favorably because when both are suited, you can make straights with the T9 and three other cards. With A9, any straight you make will utilize only one card.

Probably for the same reason as above. Q8 makes straights together, K8 only makes straights with one card at a time.

FYP

Gotcha

#16 1st March 2008, 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj11

Kids, kids!!!!

This is a chart for those who have no clue! The difference between a new player playing 56o and an experienced player playing 56o is huge.

As a basic guide, for those who have NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED SUCH THINGS, this chart will do no harm. None at all.

Thing is tho, that by the time a new player gets around to finding this or any other chart on the net, he will no longer be a new player, and will have probably experienced much disappointment, and a longing to improve his game, which taken at face value means they aren't noobs anymore.

I suggest that just because it is done in pretty colors and is big enough for folks with failing eyesight to see, that we forgive it's shortcomings......

I still think its way to loose for new players. There VPIP would be up at 25< probably closer to 30<.

#17 1st March 2008, 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

With A9, any straight you make will utilize only one card.

Yeah. It's a funny thing about Ace-rag. I have TJ Cloutier's video game and he likes A4 and A5 better than A8 and A9 due to wheel possibilities. You would think that TPTK possibilties with A9 are a positive, but I guess not.

#18 2nd March 2008, 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSticker

Yeah. It's a funny thing about Ace-rag. I have TJ Cloutier's video game and he likes A4 and A5 better than A8 and A9 due to wheel possibilities. You would think that TPTK possibilties with A9 are a positive, but I guess not.

I love than Pokerroom.com keeps track of statistics for all hands played at their tables. We can look at the expected values of AKs through A2s objectively. I've ranked them below, accoring expectation on the button for 10 players, all limits:

AKs 0.99
AQs 0.64
AJs 0.49
ATs 0.46
A9s 0.19
A5s 0.16
A8s 0.14
A2s 0.11
A7s 0.08
A4s 0.08
A3s 0.05
A6s -0.01

statistics from:

Online Poker - Play Texas Holdem Poker Games at PokerRoom.com

#19 3rd March 2008, 1:18 AM

Like I originally stated.. it is a reference not gospel.. everyone develops a playing style that suits their needs.. and we all must remember the adage "mix it up"

eveyone who has played poker for any length of time knows what is a good starting hand can become scheis by the flop, turn or river..

this works well for Tournament play but it probably should be taken under advisement for cash games..

I am primarily a Tournament Player

#20 3rd March 2008, 12:49 PM

You all realize that this chart was probably initially derived for LIMIT play, right?

#21 3rd March 2008, 2:19 PM

I'm rather new, but lately I've just been playing the top 20% of hands according to wizardofodds.

Top 20% of Hands in 6-Player Game.

Pair of sevens or higher.
Suited A and any 3 or higher.
Suited K and 7 or higher.
Any two suited cards both 9 or higher.
Suited Q and 8.
Any two unsuited cards both ten or higher.

Been happy so far

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