Guy min-raises and...

With a caller and the blinds put together I'm getting pretty good odds to call as I'm in the BB. I was ready to fold if the flop didn't hit me, but it did.

The guy acted scared on the flop so I called and tried pushing him off his hand and it worked...

Thing is, I had an even worse hand at the moment he folded than I told him I had. Figured I'd go ahead and sound extra stupid since folks had to be figurin me for a moron anyway. Told him I had 72(for a boat). Afterwards he had a hissy fit about folding his 88. I had 7's with a measly 5 kicker(but they were suited I swear!).

Anyway he said you're not supposed to use odds in tournaments and sng's. WTF? I'm confused. Mike Sexton's been lying to me through the television all this time? I've been duped. And Mr. Sexton seems like such a nice man through the coaxial cable.

Why oh why have I been working so hard at calculating odds so they're even approximately correct when I'm not even supposed to use them in tournaments?

I'll just die. Nah, not as long as I can push someone off a better hand.

Still, is there a reasoning to completely ignoring odds in tournaments? It just sounds very strange to me.

I wouldn't but i might just be me.

Only in the latter stages when ICM comes into play

That's what I was going to say.

On or after the bubble in a tourney, there are situations which may arise during which it is more advisable to simply fold and not get involved in a big pot when you don't have to. I've heard of people folding AA preflop in particularly precarious circumstances, though I don't know that I could ever actually make myself do that

I disagree mate...
Knowing pot odds always gives you an extra edge in any game....
Dont get to a decision by one bad hand or anything..
U keep playing by pot odds and in time u will know how much to trust your pot odds and when to trust your pot odds.
Good luck !!!

I don't play tournaments, so my words on this one shouldn't carry all that much weight but...

It's not that you should ignore odds, it's that you shouldn't draw when the blinds are high.
Let's say you've got a flush draw, you get the perfect price to see the turn card, and again you get the perfect price to see the river. 2/3 of the time your stack is going to be decimated, 1/3 of the time you're going to have a big win, but is putting your tournament life in jeopardy really worth it?

Take it one step further and imagine he shoves on the turn, with the blinds, maybe a third pre-flop caller (or a pre-flop raise, whichever you'd preffer) plus a bet and a call on the flop, when he shoves on the turn you could easily be commited to calling for all of your chips, or folding and taking a big hit.

If it's a question of winning the optimal amount of chips, you've got to draw when you have odds, but in a tournament you shouldn't be putting the health of your stack on the line for a hand that's going to lose most of the time.

With that being said, playing a draw with the intention of semi-bluffing is an entirely different matter.


As I already said, I'm a cash game player so all of the above may be way off, it's just the way that I understand this from the few tournaments I do play.

in tournaments u use other peoples time and energy .

so u should not consider pot odds....as the chips u loose are more important than the ones u win when blinds are high.

i don't know what kind of odds you need to call a raise OOP with a junk hand. but then again I don't know what they were thinking comeing in for a min raise. i mean any flop with out an 8 and they really can't be too happy getting it allin.

Pot odds are only a part of the story in poker, especially if there are other objectives, like making the money. A good example- look at Kelly Kim in last years' main event. Technically, there were numerous times where he should have just shoved because he was the short stack and the odds dictated he should have called or shoved. But he hung on because he knew/hoped one of the younger guns would push and he could bump up one pay level. By using that strategy he made an extra 200K.

Okay, well at that point the table was still full and blinds weren't particularly high. His min-raise didn't cost much to call. He acted wimpy and I was on the ball(doesn't happen every day), and I took a swipe praying he didn't have 2 or a big pair. It was just a satellite into of all things The Daily Dollar. Not like I was in something major, not even one of those 180 player SNG's where 1st place wins a smidge less than $100.

I actually liked how Kelly Kim played. But that was a totally different scenario. Not some bitsy sng online.

2008 WSOP Main Event still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I blame ESPN2 for rerunning it into the ground leading up to 2009 episodes. I swear, somehow the cameras were there everytime someone did something even dumber than my dumbest moves in freerolls(and I can get pretty stupid when I'm not in the right head space to play).

BTW, I didn't hate on the younger guys' moves though. I figured they were just really playing to win. Going after the bracelet more than anything. I can only guess that by then Kelly knew he'd need the biggest, luckiest, super-rush in the entire history of the world to win it.