got overpair facing raise

hey yall. you want me to stop saying "hey yall" at the start of everyone of my posts? I think this was a suitable fold or was it a tight fold with the overpair. my opponent was a tight player who likes to min raise pre-flop but this hand he raised more then normal.

Full Tilt Poker Game #19137921061: Table Ketchup - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:31:15 ET - 2010/03/10
Seat 1: pbfrk ($5.39)
Seat 2: cmon fisheeeee ($5.10)
Seat 3: Online Stud Pro ($6.22)
Seat 4: guerriero nero ($2.77)
Seat 5: romalucky04 ($1.26)
Seat 6: Camaban82 ($5.16)
Seat 7: miasnik84 ($5.16)
Seat 8: GreymanArh ($1.75)
Seat 9: Flippy1989 ($5)
cmon fisheeeee posts the small blind of $0.02
Online Stud Pro posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cmon fisheeeee [9d 9s]
guerriero nero raises to $0.15
romalucky04 folds
Camaban82 folds
miasnik84 folds
GreymanArh folds
Flippy1989 folds
pbfrk calls $0.15
cmon fisheeeee calls $0.13
Online Stud Pro folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 6c 5s]
cmon fisheeeee has 15 seconds left to act
cmon fisheeeee bets $0.30
guerriero nero raises to $0.70
pbfrk folds
cmon fisheeeee has 15 seconds left to act
cmon fisheeeee folds
Uncalled bet of $0.40 returned to guerriero nero
guerriero nero mucks
guerriero nero wins the pot ($1.03)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.10 |
Board: [3d 6c 5s]
Seat 1: pbfrk (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: cmon fisheeeee (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Online Stud Pro (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: guerriero nero collected ($1.03), mucked
Seat 5: romalucky04 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Camaban82 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: miasnik84 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: GreymanArh didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Flippy1989 didn't bet (folded)

you are against an UTG raiser.

Why did you not 3-bet .. because you though that you would be reraised and have to laydown 99 preflop, so you call.

Postflop flop comes low.. what has changed from preflop? you bet he raises and you fold because you think you are up against a tight UTG range.

So why donk bet here?

He could of had only ak aq or hands like that. if i checked he could of made a cbet with those type of hands. good board to make a cbet like that on with ace high. Then if i folded i would folded the best hand and if i called i would of probably been put to a tough decision on the flop. I don't think it was that bad a bet on the flop but if u think it was then fine.

About 60% of his range are overpairs, the rest of his range are hands like AK,AQ.

Your pot sized bet has to cause him to fold 50% of the time to show a profit, yet only 40% of his range are not overpairs to the board.

The hands that are not over-pairs are the kind of hands that tend to peel (or possibly re-raise) but most of these do not fold.

Plus this board doesnt allow you to represent anything.. a set? is he holding TT, you bet and he thinks OMG a set, id better fold!

This is a bad spot to bet.

AK and AQ do not represent a big enough percentage of his range for you pot sized bet to show a profit, and even if they were a big enough percentage of his range, he is unlikely to fold to one bet. You are also at a positional disadvantage because you are in the SB.

Other than that its an awesome bet!

Many players are aware of this line of reasoning at microstakes and will raise the flop donk bet (if you're not familiar with that term, it's not an insult - a "donk bet" is simply betting into the preflop raiser) w air (AK here) as well as w made hands. So you still don't know where you're at, you could still have the best hand and be forced to fold.

Donk bets can be extremely useful, but I generally want a better reason than seeing if we can fold out non-paired hands. A couple of reasons would be flopping a set on a drawy board (that flop doesn't hit utg's range at all and is monotone, so holding 66 I would not like this reason to donk bet) or because of history w Villain (i.e., he's spewey or can be bluffed into thinking we have a set here).

Oh yeah



Donk bet dosent mean you are a donkey

Donk bet means to lead out when you were not the preflop raiser, hence to donk into a player.

I don't play 5NL, but the fact that he raised more than normal suggests he's on AK or AQ. You should be very weary of a min-raise out of first position from a UTG raiser because it means he probably wants action.

I wouldn't have donk bet at him. I would have called the flop and had to think a little if he fired again on the turn. I don't know, I don't play 5NL but bet sizing can be telling - idk if this applies to 5NL though.

I would not have 3bet the preflop raise.

I agree he could easily be on AK or AQ

but he could just as easily be on TT or JJ and not want to give a free card fearing he could suckout if an ace comes.

i really don't understand what you did here.
the board was 365 rainbow, you had a pair of 9's and you fold. what's going on.
just because you know this guy is tight. this is a wonderful board for over cards. if this guy is tight he's also good, so he's probably putiing you on AK, QK the like and he sees you didn't hit on the flop. but what he doesn't know is you do have an over pair??????????
i just don't understand what you did here. do you generally fold - buckle when this guy bets. and if you do your his mark.
what if the turn card was a 9.................. you'll never know.
what's your playing style.are you passive.
but if you feel you made the right move - good 4 u. peace

good point. maybe i shouldn't of bet the flop. so u would suggest check fold the flop?

is this good or bad advice i'm not quite sure? u guys can decide for me. i feel like a total idiot now that almost everyone says i shoulda checked. maybe i'm a donkey

i disagree that 60% of his range is overpairs. lets say his range is 1010 JJ QQ KK AA AK AQ. there are 4 ways to make a pp so there are a total of 20 different ways to make a higher pair and 32 ways to make AK and AQ but also if i'm against an overpair i'm a big underdog and if i'm against 2 over cards then i'm a little favourite 70% i think lol. ty for telling me about the donk bet i was feeling little under the weather about being called a donk lol not sure why.

I dont think you have the best hand 50% of the time, plus you are OOP so I would check and fold to a bet.

I would probably float this if I were in position and he bet half pot because I expect him to give up on his AX hands and I expect him to bet small with air.

OOP, I would noty check raise because for some reason at microstakes, players seem to think check raises are plays done only with air and that because someone is trying to outplay them, they should do something, and the only thing they can think of is to call.

I would Check raise a set here, because I think players call check raises too much. Often after a CR players will fold way too much to a turn bet, but I just dont see the need to try and play back in this spot.

He called OOP to set mine, he did not make a set. He is against a strong range, he has a hand that is unlikely to win at SD and at this point he has invested only 2.5BB there is just no need to play back in this spot.

there are 6 ways of making a PP

AcAd, AcAh, AcAs, AdAh, AdAs, AhAs

I would also reduce AQ to AQs
However I might add in KQs

Id also increase his PP form TT+ to 88+

A pot sized bluff must work 50% of the time, he does not fold AK! so even though you are ahead of AK you wont get to SD and so will never know

I c/c here if I'm in the hand and re-evaluate the turn - several interesting things could happen:

1. board pairs
2. turn a 4
3. turn a 9

Most of the time if the 9 hits, I'm leading the turn for value. In the other two situations, readless, I'll frequently check the turn and see what Villain does - if he bets, I usually fold, if I have a read he can be bluffed, I may raise the turn.

If he doesn't bet, I prob lead the river on another card lower than a 9 (for value, not as a bluff), check/folding otherwise.

So what range are you putting him on preflop?

Prob the same range you've got him on - the range changes imo if he checks back a small turn card (and in case I wasn't clear, I'm betting for value if both the turn and river cards are smaller than a 9 and he checks back the turn) - I don't think pot control is all that well known at microstakes, could be wrong...

Statistically he is more likely to be on AK or AQ since there's more ways they could be dealt out.

Yeah I see what you mean, if he checks back the turn he is likely on AX thats why I would float in position. I just dont like playing OOP against UTG ranges.

yes, but you wont know unless you get to SD and of course both AK and AQ have 6 outs so you wont "keep" all of the money you make by making a correct value bet against AK or AQ specifically on the flop, because they will spike a pair 25% of the time unless you play the hand more agressively so as to prevent a SD

And of course although I mentioned TT and JJ, he bets QQ and KK for the same reasons, he wont allow a free card to an Ace

Totally agree w you there, I usually fold this pf oop in FR to a tight EP open w no multiway action...