Flopping Two Pair against possible flush

I often find myself not knowing what to do when I flop two pair, but two of the flop cards are of the same suit. I don't want to give someone odds to draw to a flush, but chances are they don't have a 4-flush anyway. I also have outs to a full house. How should I handle this when first to act?

For example, I have Ks8s and the flop is Kh,8c,5c. Say I'm up against two opponents and I act first.

H here,i prsonaly would make at least a pot size rase there.

If thay are on a draw then thay must pay for it.

I would play it agressive.

Hope i am some help.

Lazmansa

Without specifying preflop action and SPR, there is no good answer here.

Although to be honest, i probably can't give you a proper answer anyway because i can't think of a scenario where i would end up playing K8s out of position in a 3way pot to begin with. If you do, then you need to work on your preflop play.

if you do happen to get into a pot with hands like these... i am assuming you are in the big blind... i believe there are two ways of thinking...

you can make a 2bet into it and see if the 4th card completes the flush... if it does then be very cautious.... if it doesnt then push very hard because he only has one card to complete the flush now not two... i will guarentee if you are playing a decent player they will think about that... but i think the key is if the flush hits tread very carefully if you put him on the draw... Keys to looking at this are if he checks as well on the 4th card.. you are prob looking at a flush for him... or maybe top pair with a weak kicker... but is it worth risking your stack? no

Second way of thinking is pushing hard... but players that are super agressive are going to call you... so you need to know they type of player you are playing against...if its someone you tend to see as a tight player... then push hard.. he will probably fold... a agressive player will make the call because they feel that they can gamble for the ammount of chips you are putting in.....

I personally try to get more chips in the middle... if we are playing 1/2 and you have 6 dollars in the pot i am going to make a 6 dollar bet... if the flush doesnt come on that next card (assuming thats what i believe he has) then i am going to bet 12-15 on the next card...

i think you need to look up the definition of aggression...

OK, I can understand holding K8s in an unraised blind. I might even complete the small blind with that. It's not much good--except when the flop gives you two pair, as here.

So let's assume, for the moment, a pot where everyone in it limped in preflop. Questions to ask yourself: is anyone in it the sort to limp with, say, KK? How about 88 or 55? Those may be limping hands for some. A lot of people will limp in with a Axs. No raises normally limits the range of hands likely to be present. How many limped in, anyway? Are we looking at the other blind or two limpers? Who amongst them often shows down a suited connector or other suited hand? Anyone just adore suited cards, besides you?

I'd play this situation aggressively, vicinity of pot sized bet. I agree with Lazmansa -- make them pay to draw. Remember, you could already be beat, but a set might be as anxious about the flush draw as you. Oh, and if the flush card comes...make a stab at it. If someone reraises you, you'll know. Oh, a made flush could be tricky and let you do the betting (yahoo, says he!), so don't assume that a call there means you are still good. Or maybe he's still drawing. Yes, this could be an expensive hand for you. Or it could be a nice pot to rake into your stack. It's an interesting situation. Do you feel lucky?

I think this point is worth exploring because it has a wider scope, especially for people who like playing scs such as JhQh in multiway pots, that hit two pair.

For the specific example quoted, I think you must bet here and you need to take into account your opposition before you do, something between 1/2 pot and pot, if it is checked to you. I say you need to take into account your opponents because with a board like that there are going to be plenty of scare cards on the turn, very few any good for you. Hopefully, you understand your opponents' game sufficiently to be able to put them on some hand. Otherwise, when a scare card comes, you are vulnerable to a re-raise leading to a difficult decision. The idea I think with these things is to sneak through a win of a reasonable sized pot, not be vulnerale to scare card bluff, but not go broke if the villain hits an out.

unless you were the BB to an unraised pot...you shouldnt be in the hand anyway

RR calls a very high % from the SB with pots that have limpers and plays very fit or fold post flop.

It has been pointed out that this is incorrect play, but he will argure the toss for days on end.

I was wrong about my position. I actually limped in the CO against one other limper (a 72/7 player). The BB was 22/2. The two folders were 7/2 and 15/15. Maybe limping wasn't so good here, but the only one I'm worried about is the 15/15 on the BTN. So the flop was 3-handed. Two checks to me -- I'm actually wondering how to extract more value. It could be dangerous, but I don't want them to fold yet. If someone has 4 to a flush, I can't bet enough to ruin their drawing odds. My default has been to bet pot, thinking that it would be a mistake for a 4-flush to call, but it isn't really, is it?

I'd kind of like to keep playing this hand to see what happens, especially if a FH comes and someone gets a flush. Is this just too dangerous to get greedy here?

You really really really need to learn about iso-raising the fishes.

Didn't read past that. Limping behind a whale is so bad that the rest is irrelevant anyway.

FYI.
ignore.JPG (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22786&d=1250617938)

He likes to follow me around and harass me.

You are right. I don't know anything about iso-raising. But can you help me with my actual question? I still would like to know how to play the rest of the hand when I make a mistake.

No I can't. I don't know how to play 2 pairs on a monocolor flop with a stack to pot ratio of more than 25 in a 3 way pot and villain's ranges that can strictly be any two cards at this point.

Since I play decently preflop, that's a situation i will probably never encounter in the millions of hands i will play over the coming years, so frankly i'm not too interested in figuring it out for you.

And seriously, you should concentrate on fixing your huge leaks instead of brain masturbating over situations that should not even happen in the first place.

Belgo --are you having a bad day? I'm sorry my preflop play has you so steamed, but this hand is just an example. Lots of times I flop two pair and have this same question. Should I try to take the pot down now or should I slow play it a little bit? Seems like a legitimate question. If it offends you, you don't have to comment in the first place.

i'm having a very good day, thank you.

having established that the specific answer to your example hand is "don't play like that preflop", let's now go to the generic answer to your generic question: it depends. Preflop actions are supposed to have narrowed down the ranges of villains which will allow us to adapt our actions accordingly. And the SPR will have a huge effect too.

As a side note, you should listen to Stu. He usually says things that are not entirely stupid.

Bet 3/4 to full pot if you were the preflop raiser. Bet full pot if it is a limped multi-way pot. Check/Raise if you called a pre-flop raise out of position and can expect the raiser to fire a flop continuation bet.

Make sure you do at least a pot size raise. I would however bet more. If you do a big raise, it is not a good move for them to call it, unless of course, you do not bet much and in some other scenarios. If you do a huge bet, you will probably just end up taking the pot, but it is better than your opponent getting lucky on the turn or river.