flopped set

Hi I played this hand at the casino last nite and would like some feedback on how it was played and if I could have played it better thanks in advance for you opinions
2/5 nl
utg2 $400
hero (co) $2300
btn $1400
hero has a strong image recently showing down some strong hands and taking down some big pots, utg2 is a lag and limps in early pos likes to see alot of flops,
btn is a thinking player, plays a considerably consistent game not agressive but not tight either
utg2 limps , hero limps with 7c8c, btn calls
flop Ad8h8s pot ($17)
utg2 bets $15, hero calls $15, btn calls $15
turn Jh pot ($62)
utg2 bets $50, hero raises to $150, btn calls $150, utg2 folds
river 3h pot ($412)
hero bets $150, btn raises to $350, hero calls $200
the $150 bet on the river was meant as a blocking bet , do we look weak here with a marginal hand ? , if this is the case then btn sees this , thinks hero is probably got a marginal hand (AJ or set 8s) and represents the book or flush.
but if this is a bluff then you would think btn would raise much more as hes giving us 4.5 odds to call , AJ or set is probably just calling our $150 bet and flush or book looking for value.
my first reaction to this was that we must be beaten here , but the pot odds made this a call for me ?

It's not a set it's trips.
If BTN is any good atall, your hand is faceup and I think you're beat when he raises the river 100% of the time. If he had a showdown value (Ax, AJ) had he'd just call the river. He made the raise small so you'd call with your obvious 8 so I wouldn't justify calling with 'pot odds'. Tell me a hand that raises here that you beat.

Also what is a book?

a full house i thought

i totally agree that there are not many hands we can beat with a raise from a good player, clearly a value bet wanting us to call , I think Ive spent too much time on the net playing low stakes where these situations are sometimes worth calling as ive seen some really bad bluffs
btw what hand do you put him on ?

It looks like you have him beat unless he hit the flush, he may be trying to buy the pot, the 150 bet does look likes an almost sure blocker bet, hes hoping he can represent the flush or trips in that spot sometimes too. However he does have the flush here sometimes, rearely does he havea better 8 then you.

BTW WHAT DID HE HAVE??

i think you mean a Boat

Plenty of people have a (somewhat slightly irritating) habit of referring to a full house as a full book.
A google search of full book poker will show you some, it seems to be the norm at Crown casino (Aussie Millions), come to think of it my annoying friend who calls it a book is actually from Melbourne. Perhaps its an Aussie thing.

only hand that makes sense to me with his line is A8, J8 or AhXh. with that said it's still tough for me to toss my cards in the muck against such a tiny but obvious value raise.

i am curious about the results. plz PM them to me.

AA888 is a full house at burswood casino perth australia , also refered to as a book , sorry for the confussion must be an aussie thing

why are you making a blocker bet with trips. why are you making a small blocker bet and then calling a raise - unless you are attempting to induce.

bet bigger on the river for value and then re-ev depending on how much he raises. I'm probably going for 300ish

ok the blocker bet was intended to see a showdown cheap , incase hes got anything we can beat or split ? (trips 8s , two pair , I know unlikely but possible) , or hes hit a flush but wont raise because of the possible full house , the call of the raise defeats the purpouse of the blocker , I also relize. Just thought that if I check , oponent sees this as total weakness and is more likelly to bluff us out of the hand with a big bet.
After the hand I had a good think about the play and was thinking that the blocker bet is preety much making our hand transparent , i mean what else would you try to defend here only trip 8s and a weak AJ, so a smart player could also see this as weakness and could bluff us of the hand with a big bet. So the bigger bet would be a wiser moove like you said , that at least would clarify the situation , because no one is going to try a bluff against a value bet here ! If the oponent raises our value bet we are clearly beaten.

not shore how to send you a private message , cant post as the responses might be biased

If there are two more players still in the hand after the flop, then I'm raising something like 7-9 BB's.

read your post back to yourself

surely then check calling > bet/calling the raise?

Absolutelly check calling > bet calling a raise because we loose less. Is Bet folding best ?
What I was getting at was ( not suggesting its better just wanting your advise on this ) Say hypethetically oponent has AJ , if we check , he might think "this guy is checking so he must be weak" and puts out a big bet, so with our trips we are out of there right. But if we bet he might think this guy is betting so hes either really strong and is trying to induce or hes semi strong so i better just call , insted of raising , he calls and we take the pot, (this way we get to showdown cheap).
So how would you play this river then , bet bigger on the river and fold to a raise ? or is check /fold, check/call also an option .
The thing im questioning in this hand is the blocker bet itself (can it be used in this spot) and ofcorse the call of his raise on the river ( which im thinking its wrong) , in my opinion ,bet fold looks like the best play on the river or am I wrong.

we aren't trying to "lose less", we are trying to max our value. if he calls a narrow range to a small bet and only raises stuff that beats us, but if we check to him he'll bluff a lot or try and get value from hands he would fold if we bet, then clearly betting is best because we get more value. however, if he won't bluff wide but will call wide, and only raises our river bets when he has it, then bet folding is better than check calling

how would you play the hand ?

so in other words betting is best because we get fold equity from hands he would bet if we check and it stops him from bluffing , is this correct ?,
So what you are suggesting is the betting of the river was correct in my play but the bet sizing was wrong ?
I also figure from you post that you would heavilly rely on the reads you have of your opponent in forming your decision (which is essential to playing good poker).
Im asumming that with out any reads at all the standard play would be bet/fold then.

Advantages of betting:

- value from hands he wouldn't bet himself which have showdown value (eg weak aces)

Advantages of checking:

- allows him to bluff missed draws (eg KQ/T9)
- he might turn pairs into bluffs
- may bet hands for value which he would hero fold if you bet (eg Jacks) - only bad aggressive players would do this

given everything, unless he's a bad aggressive player, I think betting for value, say 1/2 to 2/3 pot, to get value from good pairs is best, and then re-evaluating what he does on the river but I think i'd probably fold to a river raise

Agree with Pascal. Bet/fold. It hurts but it's the best play. No one is raising the river here with a hand you beat unless they are insane or misread their hand.

If BTN is any good atall, your hand is faceup and I think you're beat when he raises the river 100% of the time. If he had a showdown value (Ax, AJ) had he'd just call the river. He made the raise small so you'd call with your obvious 8 so I wouldn't justify calling with 'pot odds'. Tell me a hand that raises here that you beat.[/quote]

Ok so if you were the btn with AJ against a player with a strong image , wouldnt it be better to raise 100% of the time instead of calling ?

it's 2/5 live, this isn't high stakes pros or anything, although obviously if you were a good player playing against a good player you might be able to bluff raise but no bad player will ever intentionally turn a hand with strong showdown value into a bluff

Should this be part of a good poker player's arsenal.

yeah

i think check folding the river is the only play here. you are almost never ahead here and the few times you are ahead he has to consider that you are checking to call cheap with trips here so he is also going to check behind. keep in mind most average players are not getting too carried away when both stacks sit above 250 bb's

I think b/f $150 here is good.

I think the real problem of this hand is you did not raise the flop. With a bet ahead and a player behind I would raise instead of call (especially when an A hits the board with your trips). This will help you keep the villains hands limited to Ax, 8x, or PP. It makes playing the turn and river much easier.

Why dont bet when we hit trips when an A is on the board? 3 handed one of them has to have an A. Dont slow play trips in a multi way hand.

Because of the call on the flop we allowed the BTN to see another card very cheaply and it came runner runner flush. This makes things very difficult on how to play. Once that happens I would think your best line on the river is:

Check/Call > Bet/fold > Bet/call.

We have good showdown value but not a super strong hand as to what has come out and for the range that we allowed BTN to stay in the hand with on the flop. Keep it cheap as possible for the showdown which means:
-check/call if bet is reasonable and BTN is LAG, capable of bluff and giving you proper odds. overall we want to keep it cheap and see if we win.
- Bet/fold if you think villain will call with a wide range paying you off when he has TP or 2 pair, or is super tight and will fold his weak flushes due to "full book" possibilities, or if will only raise if he has you beat
-Bet/Call- Only if BTN is a bluff donktard who breathes in air and spits out money.

Your bet sizing is ok as it is low enough that hands that you beat may call. I think if you bet something like $250< you run the risk of only getting called by hands that beat you.

Again I think your biggest mistake that would have made playing the hand easier would have been raising the flop.

+1

I would raise preflop. Even though utg2 is short, if he's still limping into flops with his stacksize I would say he's likely more fish than lag and still profitable to play against postflop. As played, you've made your hand pretty transparent on the turn(not saying it's wrong to ,especially at a casino, but it's just the reality) and since you say button is a thinking player, I would assume he's not raising for value without 89+. Even with your pot odds, I wouldn't expect him to be bluffing there more than 20% of the time. Fold. Personally, I don't agree with the concept of blocking bets. I mean, small value bets that you are willing to fold to a raise are exploitable(especially if you do not have a tricky image and are playing against thinking players) but are sometimes ok. I guess "blocker" bets implies the wrong purpose imo.