Flop the nuts, Omaha hi lo, what now???

#1 27th August 2008, 2:40 PM

Hi all.

I don`t know if this is right or wrong, but here we go.

I`m playing a lot of Omaha hi lo PL at moment.

What I`m starting to do is if I flop the nuts on the flop, but the flop is dangerous, I`m flat calling.

e.g. in sb with 6 7 9 10 (no diamonds) - flop 5d4d8h. Would u check to see another card. I have been and I think it is saving me money. What are your thoughts?

Also, preflop with AA79 - I`m flat calling. Again, thoughts???

#2 27th August 2008, 8:30 PM

Why are you playing garbage like 6-7-9-10? Bad low draw, eh high draw.

#3 27th August 2008, 8:35 PM

You really shouldnt be playing those hands in hi low as to be profitable you have to avoid low boards, and really need more than one person in the pot, because you have next to zero chance of scooping both pots. If you are playing really lo limit i guess its okay. However if you are going to play those hands, and you do flop the "hi" nuts as you dont have the low nuts play it aggressively if you lose you lose. Keep in mind however full tilt software isnt random so you will get beats all the time, all the more reason to be tighter with your starting hands.

#4 27th August 2008, 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldadio

Hi all.

I don`t know if this is right or wrong, but here we go.

I`m playing a lot of Omaha hi lo PL at moment.

What I`m starting to do is if I flop the nuts on the flop, but the flop is dangerous, I`m flat calling.

e.g. in sb with 6 7 9 10 (no diamonds) - flop 5d4d8h. Would u check to see another card. I have been and I think it is saving me money. What are your thoughts?

Also, preflop with AA79 - I`m flat calling. Again, thoughts???

This is a bad spot because a hand like Ad2d5x8x is freerolling. You are only winning half the pot on the flop and can lose the whole thing a lot of the time I say just folding is best.

#5 27th August 2008, 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldadio

e.g. in sb with 6 7 9 10 (no diamonds) - flop 5d4d8h. Would u check to see another card. I have been and I think it is saving me money.

Also, preflop with AA79 - I`m flat calling. Again, thoughts???

Did ANYONE notice he was in the small blind?????? I would have raised here. Only someone with an 8J has you beat. Not sure what you mean by 'should I check'? were you the first to bet? I'd not raise a bet - just call and pray for no diamond or pair. You not only have the nut str8, but highly unlikely anyone else has that same inside str8, so off the bat, I would raise here, limit or PL, and decide what to do accordingly.

On the AA79, no question to call, why wouldn't you. I've seen many raise with this, an obvious mistake.

#6 27th August 2008, 9:06 PM

You probably need to post more info here but it depends on your style and what your playing and a few other things. I normally push the 2nd hand a bit if I can price out most people. The first hand with a midwrap is generally a pretty bad hand but based on hitting the nuts on the flop, I would play it and certaintly if a blank came on the turn I would get more aggressive with it.

#7 27th August 2008, 9:08 PM

In omaha checking is just too dangerous because of all the possibilities that your opponent could hit. Just bet large and see where you stand in the hand.

#8 29th August 2008, 2:14 PM

Just to clarify a few things.

I`m in the Small blind, so it is going to cost me 1/2 bet to call a pot with about 6 bets in - I`m getting about 12:1 to call.

I flopped the nut hi.

If I raise here anyone with a flush draw/ nut lo/ set/ etc will call (one of the problems u have with Omaha hi lo.)

What I normally do in this situation is bet the pot. If I get callers I know what I need to avoid - in this case a diamond or the board pairing (I`m obviously fully aware that I`m chasing 1/2 the pot here, so getting more chips in the pot while I`m ahead is the way.)

The only problem I feel I have here is if the 3rd diamond hits the flop I would have to slow up and fold to a bet.

#9 29th August 2008, 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldadio

Just to clarify a few things.

I`m in the Small blind, so it is going to cost me 1/2 bet to call a pot with about 6 bets in - I`m getting about 12:1 to call.

I flopped the nut hi.

If I raise here anyone with a flush draw/ nut lo/ set/ etc will call (one of the problems u have with Omaha hi lo.)

What I normally do in this situation is bet the pot. If I get callers I know what I need to avoid - in this case a diamond or the board pairing (I`m obviously fully aware that I`m chasing 1/2 the pot here, so getting more chips in the pot while I`m ahead is the way.)

The only problem I feel I have here is if the 3rd diamond hits the flop I would have to slow up and fold to a bet.

I'd be unwilling to bet too much into this pot chasing just the high. Let's assume someone already has A2 and is going nowhere, and is going to win the Lo.

The pot stands at 600 (100 from everyone preflop). You do a pot sized bet of 600 and get called by someone with a better straight draw and a flush draw, and by the person with the nut lo. The pot now stands at 2400, but you can only win (at best, assuming the other guy doesn't have the same hand or outdraws you) 1200. And seeing as you've already invested 700 you're not getting a great return on your money even when your hand holds up.

Also, as has been pointed out already, bear in mind that if you're playing at full tilt the software is rigged, so there's a 100% chance you'll get outdrawn here, so really you should probably just fold.

#10 29th August 2008, 4:20 PM

I lead this flop in limit 100% of the time.

#11 29th August 2008, 4:50 PM

I certainly would check that flop seing if anyone has diamonds or a higher str8 draw you are most likely getting called. If the turn comes a blank that doesnt pair the board I would fire out about half the pot just to see where I stand

#12 30th August 2008, 12:23 AM

Well depends how many ppl there are for the first example. If there are many there are bigger chances of a dimond flush so raising might jusst be giving it away... On the other hand if there are few ppl then you can give it a try. For the second example... you should always raise with Aces in omaha... i mean trying to pretend you dont have them might work sometimes but those are exeptions... Its up to you in the end. Good luck at the tables

.

#13 30th August 2008, 4:57 PM

omaha is a post flop game unless ur heads up with 1 other the flush has to worry u plus ur proll only winning the hi right now aa79 not a great hand in hi lo at best u might win the hi if u hit a set depending on the amount of betting im either calling or folding raising only ifthere has been minimal action to me

#14 30th August 2008, 5:18 PM

well you have the best hand until another diamond comes out...try to scare the rest out with a bet...if not just hope everyone else misses their draw

#15 30th August 2008, 5:33 PM

if i were to flop the nut hi id be betting it big here, even if you do get a couple of callers, you still have nut hi and most likely one of your callers will have nut low, and if the 3rd diamond comes, you are obliged to get p****d off with the software and most likely fold to a bet

#16 1st September 2008, 11:14 AM

As it happened, I flat called, a diamond hit and I folded to a bet.

I do think that there is an argument to play this way in Omaha hi lo (i.e. check the nut hi on the flop but with a very scary board)

But thanks for all your comments.

As another point - I never said I had any doubts about the software?

#17 1st September 2008, 2:44 PM

You should have doubts about the software. If the diamond comes spoiling your straight then the software is obviously rigged

The reason I don't like a big pot here is that we're essentially playing for half of the pot, as it is unlikely we're going to win the lo pot. Add this to the fact that our hand is quite vulnerable (though still a favourite) and I don't see building a big pot to be particulary profitable. Assuming someone has the lo then another way to think about it is that every bet you make, half of it is going into the lo pot, which you have no chance of winning.

#18 1st September 2008, 8:47 PM

Fold preflop. You have a rotten hand.
Post flop, it still isn't that good. You see a lot of flushes in Omaha. If the board pairs, you could also be facing a boat.

#19 1st September 2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santa fe slim

Fold preflop. You have a rotten hand.
Post flop, it still isn't that good. You see a lot of flushes in Omaha. If the board pairs, you could also be facing a boat.

I was in the small blind with 6 limpers. I would probably have called with 29 & 2 jokers the odds were so good !!!

I didnt raise because of what you said - apart from you say the hand is not that good post flop - at that time I had the nuts - everyone else was drawing to their hand.

#20 1st September 2008, 10:23 PM

flopped nuts is the "KISS of Death" in omaha....

#21 1st September 2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daxter70

flopped nuts is the "KISS of Death" in omaha....

I was thinking the same thing. The thread title led me to believe the wheel was flopped which is the only nut-hand that can withstand 2 more cards.

For that nut to hold, you would need runner runner non-diamond, 3 gap, non-pairs. 2 lows on the board, so depending on the stakes, you'll have callers chasing their low so you probably won't know where you stand.

I will be the first to admit that I am a noob at Omaha and I would probably lead out with that hand, but that is not advice.

The only advice I can offer, is to never view the flop as the high nuts, unless you catch quads. Even then, people catch up.

#22 2nd September 2008, 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CfPoker

I'd be unwilling to bet too much into this pot chasing just the high. Let's assume someone already has A2 and is going nowhere, and is going to win the Lo.

The pot stands at 600 (100 from everyone preflop). You do a pot sized bet of 600 and get called by someone with a better straight draw and a flush draw, and by the person with the nut lo. The pot now stands at 2400, but you can only win (at best, assuming the other guy doesn't have the same hand or outdraws you) 1200. And seeing as you've already invested 700 you're not getting a great return on your money even when your hand holds up.

Also, as has been pointed out already, bear in mind that if you're playing at full tilt the software is rigged, so there's a 100% chance you'll get outdrawn here, so really you should probably just fold.

Did I miss something, Full Tilt rigged ? Have you got proof for that ?

#23 2nd September 2008, 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZFLOP

Did I miss something, Full Tilt rigged ? Have you got proof for that ?

It's a joke aimed at all of the noobs who insist on blaming the rigged sites for their poor play.

Also, see...

Rigged Definition

#24 2nd September 2008, 11:09 PM

when playing pl O h/l you really should be more selective with your cards.. hitting nuts on the flop on h/l is like bowling a 300 everytime you bowl.. it's just not realistic.. you can have the best hand on the flop, or best drawing outs.. but to hit nuts on the flop is really really really rare in my opinion.. so by that theory, you should be super selective in that regard

#25 3rd September 2008, 1:42 AM

i agree on how u play the AA79 id limp to cuz AA loses value a lot after the flop
but hitting the nuts i would always bet a lot pretty much pot
cuz if the diamond doesnt come u can bet pot and get them outta the pot
and if they call theyre either really gambling or going for the low pot. once and a while doing both at the same time.
also take into account position type of player and all that

#26 3rd September 2008, 2:59 AM

Why refer to this as the nuts? 2 more cards are coming, this hand has a momentary lead. Omaha is all about outs and good players will bet them. If this were just HI you could take a stab at this and maybe get some people out, but with a split pot the low hand will call or raise. The low will probably have Ad2d and two pair besides that will become a boat by the river.

#27 3rd September 2008, 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiWalk

It's a joke aimed at all of the noobs who insist on blaming the rigged sites for their poor play.

Also, see...

Rigged Definition

Haha, good, you had me going there I'm fairly new at poker and you said it in such a self-evident way that I stepped right into it.

#28 3rd September 2008, 9:58 PM

in omaha hi lo slowplaying is just a baddddd move.... however the ONLY case in whick you should slowplay is when you are 95-100% sure you have won the hand... ie you have 5577 rainbow the flop is 554.... in this case you have 4 of a kind and its imposible that another player make another better combination ( well its 99% probably you win this hi hand). in this case checking is the best option and when your opponents raise pot you just call and see the turn with the nuts and continue slowplaying.
remember ... your flop nuts could be your opponent turn nuts.... check when you are sureee you have won the hand at least a 95% of probabilities....

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