Flaws in my game. Leaving the table. Live play

This might be a little long, I'm just looking for comments, or suggestions, or thing other people do.


I am a teacher and avid poker player. I play live cash games 4-5 days a week during the summer. I have a decent bankroll, play a pretty good game, and am getting used to playing for my income. During the summer, my bankroll has increased over 100% and poker has paid for all my food, gas, and drinking for the summer. Every time I play I keep track of my session earnings and time played in a nice little excel sheet. I have hopes of next summer renting a place outside Vegas or AC and trying to play the 5/10 the whole time.

I am seeing a potential weakness in my game after a few months of keeping track of it on the excel sheet. My problem is with the amount of money I leave the table with compared to what I allow myself to lose in each session. I bring three buy ins, and if the session is going bad and I lose it, I leave. Winning sessions I have been leaving with just under 3x my buy in. I have trouble winning more than that and walking away. There's been a few times where I win 5x the buy in, (once in the past year I won 20x). I feel like I am cutting my self short by my conservative approach to leaving the table. My problem is that what I have been doing has been working, but I feel like I could do better. I feel like I could make more per session.

Any other live cash game players out there? What makes you decide that enough is enough and walk away on top? I feel like I am too greedy. I have seen it where I'm up 2 or 3x the buy in and try to make it 5-10x and end up losing some chips trying to gamble to make the extra. Again, I have been pretty successful with my approach right now, but feel like I should be taking a lot more chips off the table than I am.

Sometimes you have to go on gut feelings. Also its good to have min and max limits like you do so you dont create too much downswings and go on tilt.

I would suggest trying to set both a time and + - money made limit. When you hit either of them its time to go.

It sounds like what you are doing is correct. Keep the money you won and get out, if you are making money on the books then why risktrying to make your 5X the buy in. you may see yourself struggling with that being achieved more then what you do now. which means more money spent trying to reach these limits.

if you want to give it a try. but dont let yourself dig a whole and then try to make it 10X the buyin to try to make back money you lost.

Stick with your system. You will be playing the same amount of poker either way. just not all at the same place.

Sounds to me like you might be trying to force things to happen. If you have already won 3x your buy ins then stick to that method. It's working!

I think maybe this is setting you off a little bit. Like dg said above, we can't make things happen. We make the best possible decision every hand, without worrying about the dollar amounts and how much we are up/down. I think if you continue to "gamble" to try to make back something you lost, you'll end up losing even more.

Forget a specific amount, if you're thinking of playing more than part-time.

You should be putting in as many hours as possible when the game is good, and you have a significant edge. When that edge disappears... leave. Until then, play, play, play.

Table selection will be a huge part of this equation, especially if you're going to take the game more seriously. Don't set stop-limits.

Play until you're unable to play your A-game... or until the table changes, losing your edge. If that happens, but you're still focused... switch to a table that give you that edge.

The "next level" is about putting yourself into situations where you're only focused on the process... not the outcome. You can't reach that next level if you're worried about how much cash you have in front of you, or how much you 'may' lose. If you're focused on the $$$, move down.

Good luck!

I appreciate the advice, but I have to respectfully disagree. Poker is and has always been about the money. I don't really understand what you mean by "level". To me, a level is the game stakes. All it takes to move up to the next level is a larger bankroll.

And there was a recent article in Cardplayer magazine where one of the top cash guys was saying that in order to be a great cash player you have to not care about money. This too I disagree with. This completely ignores the reasons anyone plays....to make money. The primary reason we all play poker is to make money, if you truly didn't care about it you wouldn't bother playing.

I understand, and in general, practice the "once on the table my chips have no value" theory, but I don't think this should be taken to an extreme. Your stack size, and session's profitability all should be taken into consideration when deciding to stay or go. If you have had a rough week, and are up a few x your buy in, theres nothing wrong with leaving because you want to make sure you walk away with cash.

IMHO the value of you chips should not effect your game on a hand to hand basis. But it should effect your staying and going decisions. Thats the misinformation of the "don't care about money" idea. On a hand to hand level its a great theory, but in making table change/pack and go home decisions I don't see how it really applies.

I think you are misunderstanding us on the "don't think about the money" idea. You should think about the money. But it shouldn't sway your decision to stay or go.

Variance, as I have learned, is part of the game. I play a lot of freerolls and in most of them start out and get down to well below half of my starting chips only to come out in the top 10%. I know it's an MTT, but if I used you're theory, as soon I was below half I should just quit. There wouldn't be any reason to stay in it because I would feel I can't make it back.

What we are saying is that we think you are putting too much emphasis on the money and not enough on playing correctly to win.

Well put, thanks!

"If it ain't broke-DON'T FIX IT!!"--I also have a rule in live poker(one I WISH I could follow on-line)-I take $XXX.XX to the table and allow my-self to either WIN that amount or LOOSE that same amount! And when $XXX.XX is won OR lost---I'm gone! Why? 'Cuz the 2 times I raised that amount---I walked away loosing, when, had I stuck with my already proven fact, I would have walked away winning! Lending to that age old addage----"If it ain't broke-don't fix it"!

Okay, but you came on here looking for advice about your game, but it looks as if you are sticking to your guns. I was just trying to help with my opinions.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. As others have said, if the game is still good, stick with it and ride that pony for all she's worth. However, when the game starts to go south, then maybe set yourself a "loss" limit. Even though you are still ahead, you can limit the amount of your profit that you loose.

When you hit that amount, walk away. I don't play at your level, but I have started to apply this same "stop loss" rule in my play. I play $2/$4 Limit and buy-in for $100. Twice this summer (playing once a week) I've been up over $100 and ended up losing part of my buy-in when I failed to leave the table soon enough after the game turned bad. I've won $300 in one session before and over $200 several times, so those visions were dancing in my head. Leaving when the game turns sour is part of (to cite the lyrics from a popular song) "knowing when to fold'em!"

This is what most too many players don't understand. Unless you're "leaving" the game forever, you're not really leaving. You're only "delaying" the next hand.

The game doesn't stop when you get up, because it's ONE LONG SESSION... which is why if the game is good, and you have the proper BR... NEVER LEAVE WHEN YOU'RE WINNING, AND HAVE A BIG EDGE -

You're currently up 30 bb's or 2 buy-ins. What if I told you you'd be up 50bb's or 5 buy-ins? You'd, of course, wouldn't leave. We don't have that guarantee, but we do have is our ability vs. their ability. If your ability is better than theirs... PLAY PLAY PLAY!!!!!

If you're afraid to lose your "winnings," you're playing the wrong game... or at the very least, not maximizing your potential winnings. I used to be this guy - leave when I reach (X) amount, but then wondered why it was very difficult to overcome those days when I wasn't running well.

Answer: Because I never maximized the days when I was running hot, and had a significant edge. I made one of the biggest mistake you can make in poker... I left in the middle of winning streak (because I was afraid of giving it back). What's the difference in the next hand being today... or the next hand being tomorrow? Nothing - it's still, and always will be, the next hand! Now that I'm staying when my edge is big, my wins are waay bigger.

Leave only when you're not playing your A-game, or when their A-game is better than yours!