fixed limit question

In a fixed limit cash game against unknown opponents is it OK to complete from SB if you have 3 or more limpers with hands like A2o, K2o, Q2o, J2o, T8o??? I found a chart where it says to call from SB with those offsuited hands but I am not agree with that.

I would say so since you have good pot odds to call. Although, if you have Ace-x with a bunch of limpers. A raise might be beneficial (unless the peopel on your tables are calling stations).

I agree, calling with those hands is pretty bad in a microstakes game, since you're spewing off reverse implied odds. So while you might be getting pot odds, those hands really could cost you many more bets on later streets.

T8o is probably worth a call though.

My question was about fixed limit. At FL it's always a mistake to enter in a pot and then fold to a raise if you only have to call 1 small bet.

Whatever you find in the 'advice' books, you also have to realize that most advice can never apply to 'every' situation. Limit games are just as situational and positional as pl or nl, just in different ways.

Your example so far does not address stacks, buy-in, MTT, ring game, table reads, etc. If you complete from the SB, there is only one player left to act. What do you know about him? Anything? What will you do if he raises? If he is almost sure to raise, I say fold those hands, except maybe the 8,10. If not, complete.

You are already in for 1/2. You'll be first to act after the flop and a check-fold is free, as is a check-around. Where situational comes in here is where your stack sits against the other players. Short-stacked/big blinds, no. Average or better, lower levels of MTT, sure.

Does calling mean you are bleeding off chips? Not really, from the SB. You are already bleeding something. I would also guess there is a writer's explanation as to 'why' you should complete/call. You're not giving us that info.

IMO, in most cases, call. In a few cases, fold. Never raise.

str8 wrote: "At FL it's always a mistake to enter in a pot and then fold to a raise if you only have to call 1 small bet." I'll repeat that there is no such thing as 'always' in poker. If you were to complete the SB and BB raises, you say to call the raise 'always'. NOW you start bleeding chips.

I was talking about the limpers. Yes, SB position is different.
The chart where I found that advice was for unknown opponents in a FL cash game. I don't think stacks are so important in a cash game. Usually every player has more than 15 BB. I suppose a game where I have 3 or more limpers is a loose passive game and if BB is unknown I will assume he is passive too.

Gotta say the advice here is pretty bad--except for Nevadanick. Nick is spot on with all thoughts.

Just my opinion

In a fixed game: raising with Ax in the sb with 3-4 limpers is horrible, call/fold off the flop is fine if you miss, and if you don't have the discipline to fold marginal hands post flop because you may catch a small piece then you need to work on your post flop game. Getting 1:10 on your money for a good chance at a look at a flop is pretty good. AGAIN like Nick said--depending on the texture of the game and the habits of the other players (especially the guy in the bb)

I complete every blind and if I'm in for some money I call a raise.In limit it's ok to me as long as you know what your danger point is.When you can no longer afford to call from the small blind.In limit is actually quite easy to make back lost money as most people will call if they got any piece of the flop.The one thing I would be worried about is the blind sizes compared to my stack size.

I can't edit anymore my first post, but I'm talking only about cash games. And the opponents are unknown.

OP stated it is a cash limit game. What does 'in for some money - call a raise' mean? What 'danger' point is there in a cash game? If you are low stacked, reload. If you can't, you're in over your head.

'make back lost money' thinking is usually what makes limit games profitable for me. AKA - chasers.

Worried about blinds vs. stack size? Again, you're in over your head - and your BR.

Well, not ALWAYS. I don't play much fixed limit so don't take much stokc into what I say. I sohuld have read the thread more closely.

The only exception is when you complete with a weak hand from SB and BB raises. In all other cases, when you voluntary enter into a pot you have the correct odds to call 1 more bet to see the flop. This is only for preflop play. After the flop there are many situations where you can play bet/fold.

good odds but rag hands depends on players at table

I looked today in "Small Stakes Hold'em" in their chart, and it doesn't say there to complete from SB with the hands I listed in my first post. If there is no raise it says to play from SB the same hands you would play from late position (any PP,AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s,....,any 2 offsuit cards ten or higher(KT,JT,etc.)) +any 2 suited cards. And that book was made for the loosest limit games possible, where 4+ limpers is something common.

NOPE! never complete the SB with A2o,k2o,j2o,T8o ...theres just NO value and its always going to be -EV completing the small blind with those hands. If its a family pot then you can consider T8o for implied odds to hit your straight..but never those A2o or K2o type hands since the only way you can win is if you hit 2 pair or better which is so rare. Dont complete SB to much since the most money lost is from BB and SB.

Limp in with all PPs..suited aces..and some situation suited kings.. never limp with off suit broadways from the SB..unless again its a family pot and the only value you should go for is a straight 2 pair+. too many players make the mistake thinking its okay to limp from the SB since they have odds but no matter what its always going to lose you money in the long run.

For the most part, I agree with koadyawn, although I play a little looser than he suggests. In a small stakes fixed limit cash game, almost all pots are "family" pots...6-9 players. (They call it No Fold'em Hold'em for a reason!) I will complete the SB with any two suited cards, any two cards 10 or higher, any Ace, or any obviously better hands. But, as noted by several posters above, you must develop the discipline to lay down maginal hands after the flop. A weak Ace will need to hit two pair to win. Suited cards will need to flop two pair, a set, or a four flush to continue past the flop, etc. Obviously, in an unrasied pot, you are getting the right odds to see the flop. And, if you get a piece of it, you might pay one more small bet to see the Turn. If the Turn misses, get out. The inherent problem with completing the SB with crap cards is that you often get just enough of the flop to keep you chasing. Do this too often and you will bleed chips. Remember, in order to defend your blinds, you have to have something to defend them with. When in doubt, play tight and fold, especially if you don't have the discipline to not chase marginal hands to the River.