Does your range change...

#1 28th April 2010, 3:50 AM

Does your range change...

Pre-flop:
1: Everyone is 100bb deep, villain raises 3bb, 4bb, or 5bb, are your calling/3betting ranges different?

2: Does your range change based on your own raise sizing (including 3bets/4bet sizing)? - I'm making the assumption that you don't change your raise based on your cards and if your sizing changes it's based on other factors. Question still applies if you only use one sizing though.

Post-flop:
3: Villain raised pre-flop from MP, you called from the BTN, both of you were 100bb deep. Assuming villain sizes flop bets entirely based on the flop texture, do you continue with a wider range depending on his sizing? I guess to re-state this, do you have noticeably different amounts of questionable hands in your range if they bet 1/2 pot or 2/3 pot or full pot?

4: Same as the last question, except you're the guy OOP who's cbetting, do give up more often when you're going to have to make a pot sized bet compared to a 2/3 pot bet?

My answers to all of the above are "yes" and my adjustments are in some spots very significant, I'm just trying to get a feel for what other people do, maybe I over-adjust.

#2 28th April 2010, 6:00 AM

1. Unless I think he's varying raise size based on hand strength, not really. Obv this changes the odds, but that's not something I pay attention to for calling/3betting purposes. Minraises strike me as fishy, so those do change my ranges. Interesting idea though.

2. No. My sizing changes based on position and villain types, my range changes for the same reasons, but my range not related to my raise sizing.

3. If I think he's varying his range based on flop texture, than yes, I use that as information to determine when I'm continuing/raising. For example, if villain bets smaller on a dry board I'll use that info to fold more of my marginal hands. On draw heavy boards, if I have a weaker draw, a bigger raise will sometimes cause me to peel more widely.

4. I'm not sure I get this one - if I think I'm ahead on a draw heavy board, I'm happy to make a bigger bet, if I get a ton of action I'm obv re-thinking.

#3 28th April 2010, 1:09 PM

Reasons and random explanations:

1: I've posted a ton of times about pre-flop bet sizing and how I change my sizing depending on the range I'm going to be playing, the tighter my range the bigger my raise is.
I apply the same principle to calling and 3betting.
Let's say villain bets 5bb then I can usually expect a SPR of 9 on the flop, if he bets 3bb then I can expect an SPR of 15, as such my range shifts towards higher cards against the 5bb raise and implied odds hands against the 3bb raise, although both situations are still quite deep stacked they are quite different and I think an adjustment is important.
This isn't the result of any great amount of thought, just the realisation a few months ago that I do too much goofy stuff and realised that screwing around in the 5bb open raise pots is a really bad idea.
3bets/4bets are similar, except I'm more concerned with getting pot committed than final pot sizes.

2: Self explanatory, I think.

3: I think we may have a misunderstanding on this one, he's not necessarily varying his range but his raise sizing.
Personally I'm not so concerned with board texture when facing a cbet, unless I think it's either nailed his range or mine, but the sizing often makes it easy to float on dry boards. I've got a lot more air in my range vs a 1/2 pot bet than against a 3/4 pot bet.

4: To re-word the question: do you cbet more when your sizing is smaller?

#4 28th April 2010, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerkid123

Does your range change...

All my answers are contingent on the fact that the villian is good enough to read these types of things. Generally, if you see him making mistakes that you can read, then he is probably unaware of anything you are doing. But I digress....

Pre-flop:
1: Everyone is 100bb deep, villain raises 3bb, 4bb, or 5bb, are your calling/3betting ranges different?

Yes, ranges will differ. I assume he has a pattern of doing so and I recognize it. I would be calling with tighter ranges with his larger bets until he catches on. Then it would be a game of 'chicken' where I am changing my calling ranges and he is changing his patterns for raising.

2: Does your range change based on your own raise sizing (including 3bets/4bet sizing)? - I'm making the assumption that you don't change your raise based on your cards and if your sizing changes it's based on other factors. Question still applies if you only use one sizing though.

I think I have different ranges, but the changes are not based on my raise sizing. I also think who I'm playing, a bit of position and GAME FLOW. I truly think game flow is undersestimated. If he knows I'm bullying, then my range will tighten up, but I do not want to alert him to this, so my bet sizing would essentially be constant.

Post-flop:
3: Villain raised pre-flop from MP, you called from the BTN, both of you were 100bb deep. Assuming villain sizes flop bets entirely based on the flop texture, do you continue with a wider range depending on his sizing? I guess to re-state this, do you have noticeably different amounts of questionable hands in your range if they bet 1/2 pot or 2/3 pot or full pot?

I think so. Again, it depends on his history. But that not withstanding, I would say yes. His story so far is he is not super strong. And he did raise preflop. So, let's see what he does on the turn and re-evaluate then. Sometimes, you have to decide to get additional information before you can determine his patterns over time.

4: Same as the last question, except you're the guy OOP who's cbetting, do give up more often when you're going to have to make a pot sized bet compared to a 2/3 pot bet?

Generally yes. But to avoid that, I try to bet '2/3 pot' a lot more OOP. By standardizing my bets OOP, the villian gets less information to read me.

My answers to all of the above are "yes" and my adjustments are in some spots very significant, I'm just trying to get a feel for what other people do, maybe I over-adjust.

Great post PK123. I did not see too many people posting this type of stuff, so I assumed this site did not get this in-depth. I will continue to follow this post.

#5 28th April 2010, 5:06 PM

Prefop, assuming villain does not adapt bet size to his hand but to other factors only, smaller raises should make you call more, 3bet less. big raises should see you call less, 3bet more.

If villain adapts bet size to his hand, you should just find a way to exploit that huge leak.

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